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  1. #11

    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    kick boxing
    Thanks a bunch for taking time to answer my questions. I really appreciate the help. Will keep you updated on my progress.

  2. #12

    Join Date
    Jul 2009

    Ross is always a good resource for training for fighters.

    Good luck with your training

  3. #13

    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    it's a 5x5 routine for beginners, nothing more nothing less

    if you are squatting double bodyweight for reps, don't even bother looking into it

    if you are new to lifting, by all means a good choice

  4. #14

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Bjj & Judo
    SS is not a 5x5 routine. Stronglift it's a stupid ripoff of Mark's SS workout. I wouldn't recommend Stronglifts because the volume is higher than SS.

    I was doing SS for while (by far the best beginner to intermediate program) but decide to switch to Pavel's Power to the People Russian version.

    PTTP works really well with Martial Arts because it's aimed at pure strength and you could do it 4 to 5 days a week.

  5. #15

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Pasadena, CA
    Judo noob, injured guy.
    Here is a routine that is stickied at Judoforum. I have switched to it from SS and it has been rocky (since I starting actually training Judo at about the same time I switched) but it seems pretty well thought out.

    "This is what I recommend to the judoka I know who are starting a weight routine for the first time. This doesn't mean they haven't used weights; it means I haven't been around them while they're doing it, so I need a baseline. This also doesn't mean they aren't strong. If you bench 275 for reps, I'll still start you on this program.

    Here is a two-day per week lifting program. If you work hard on this for 6-12 months, you will be stronger than 95% of the people who spout silly things on this forum (the other 5% have already done something similar to this). Notation is sets x reps (3x5 is 3 sets of 5 reps).

    Power clean 5x2
    Squat 3x5
    Bench 3x5
    Chin 3x10-15

    Power clean 5x2
    Squat 3x5 (or front squat 5x3)
    Press 3x5
    Deadlift 1x5

    Program notes:
    * You do this. That's it. I'd recommend another day or two of agility work, complexes, and sprints/prowler work, but that's another topic.
    * You add a bit of weight to powercleans each week (not every day). It should feel a little lighter on B day. This is practice day.
    * You can back squat both days if you want (that's what I recommend starting out). If you feel tweaked, if deadlifting is hard after squatting, or if you just want to front squat, then you can alternate.
    * If you can do 3x15 dead hang chins, then you need to add weight to keep the reps between 10 and 15.
    * If you have extra time at the end, do farmers walks. Great ROI.
    * All work sets sets are "sets across" (same weight for each set). Do 3-4 warmup sets (always start with the empty bar) to get there.
    * Add ten pounds per week to squat, five pounds per week to your presses, and 5 or fewer pounds per week to power clean.
    * Once the weights feel heavy the gains slow, work for 3 weeks and deload for 1 week.
    E.g. for squats:
    week 1 405x5x3
    week 2 415x5x3
    week 3 425x5x3
    week 4 225x5x3 (or go play soccer)
    week 5 435x5x3 (or 425x5x3 if you need to)
    ***When you record your workouts, it is weight x reps x sets. I'm not sure why this is, but it is.

    Q: This looks very similar to Starting Strength.
    A: It looks like that for two reasons. One, SS being good and me being lazy, I see no need to change. Two, I have been friends with and trained at the author's gym since the late 90s (with a short break in there somewhere). I have discussed the tweaks I use for judo players. This is the result.

    Q: What happens when I can't add weight any longer?
    A: Ask when you get there. Most don't.

    Q: Can I do...?
    A: Maybe. But if you're asking because you don't know the answer, stick with the above until you sort things out."

  6. #16
    jspeedy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Orlando, FL
    ^ I love it when starting programs begin with 275lb benches and 400lb squats as an example. I'm not particularly familiar with the program above, but these "starting programs" do wonders for my self esteem. This isn't the first example i've seen of a beginner program handling this kind of weight. I thought I was doing good (as a beginner) getting to well over 200lbs bench at 165lbs (not a big guy but I know many who are much smaller) and as a total squat newb got up to a 230lb squat on stronglifts within approx. a year while working and schooling 60+ hours a week with wife and kid.

    Maybe I'm just being a whiny bitch but who needs a beginner program when they are starting at over 200lbs unless they weigh much more than 200lbs? I realize with the many books and sources I've read on the subject I'm still a beginner, I also realize that someone my size who started relatively recently may work up to these weights but I figure at that point they will be close to approaching the beginner to intermediate level and will have already been a beginner for quite some time. Are there more heavyweight beginners than i realize out there or am I really that weak?

  7. #17

    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Sherburne NY
    Arnis Kali
    Quote Originally Posted by St. Sleaze View Post
    a I realize with the many books and sources I've read on the subject I'm still a beginner, I also realize that someone my size who started relatively recently may work up to these weights but I figure at that point they will be close to approaching the beginner to intermediate level and will have already been a beginner for quite some time. Are there more heavyweight beginners than i realize out there or am I really that weak?
    In the strength sport world a "beginner" is typically considered to become "intermediate" (for a male) able to:
    Bench 1.5xbodyweight
    OHP 1xbodyweight
    Squat 1.75xbodyweight
    DL 2xbodyweight

    Obviously these are raw numbers (no lifting gear) and only aimed at strength competitors, but many times these are the basis of the numbers used in strength programs.

  8. #18
    money's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Huntsville, AL
    BJJ, MT, MMA, 9mm
    Quote Originally Posted by 1point2 View Post
    My more refined argument: Strength gains, particularly the massive and rapid strength gains achievable by novices, are arguably the easiest way to improve one's fighting ability if one is weak. Going from "weak like most people" to "can squat as much as they weight" doesn't take very much time if you're even moderately dedicated. Assuming a zero-sum trade-off between developing technique or strength, the benefit of technique that will be refined during that time is less or (perhaps) equal.

    I'd agree that antonyneal and fin0867 should start training whichever martial art they're looking at, but I'd devote at least one day a week, and preferably two, to lifting heavy.
    I have been lifting 3x week for just over 2 months now. In that short time I'm already getting close to hitting intermediate on most of the big lifts, doing the following for reps:

    Bench 1.0xbodyweight
    OHP 0.75xbodyweight
    Squat 1.25xbodyweight
    DL 1.75xbodyweight

    Granted, I don't weigh ****, but I was surprised at the immediate strength gains available to someone if they've never really lifted before. Even if you're not planning on getting seriously into it, the reward for just a short amount of time spent to get the immediate newbie gains is immense.
    HTFU and join Bullshido on Fitocracy!

  9. #19

    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Lot's of good answers, so I'll just add something not entirely related to your question: one program that is much more doable when cutting or when performing additional physical activity is "All Pro's Beginner Routine", which is stickied in It is a simple rep-progression based program with perioditisation and built-in deloading. Compared to SS the gains are more in size/strength then purely strength.

    I've had good results while practicing Judo two times a week and in an overall caloric break-even (or even slight deficit sometimes) in that I didn't feel completely depleted. With SS it would be harder.

  10. #20

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    I did this for 3 months.. but I lifted to heavy in the beginning and had to cut down on weights and do more reps. Another mistake I did was nutrition. I did like 4000 calories each day and I got sick and took a week of the program and did cardio instead.. be careful what you put in your body and make sure that you lift properly. I think proper technique is more important than how much you actually lift because technique protects you.
    I know this is no brainers but I actually did these stupid mistakes so please don't do the same as I did :)

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