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  1. #331

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    Luke Holloway/Team Wujin/RAW Combat Investigation Thread

    Luke Rockhold ,in the history of combat sports has there ever been a more sorer loser post fight ? Cause I cant remember one lol

  2. #332

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    All these new raw combat branches, I think we can safely say that they're the Mc' Dojo's of the Millennials. I've started to see them as the equivalent/evolution of the fraud Karate schools of the years past. The great thing is those schools mostly got killed off by the rise of MMA and BJJ. However, all these street fighting/ tactical LARP programs out there have an ingenious trick to avoiding the fate of their predecessors. The trick is, they never spar. It's odd to see a bunch of guys in their BDU's who never actually fight each other. They seem to "train" often, but you never see them doing a live force on force setting. Also. they hide behind weapons training. I do a ton of weapons training as a part of my career it has its place. However, weapons training becomes easy to hide behind. Sparring and doing live force on force exposes people. You really can't fake being a tough guy when the gloves come on and it's time to go. You can totally fake knowledge and skill with weapons. This is because when you show up to the gym no one is going to go "ok buddy, get your knife its time to knife fight" or "or guys we're going to have a gun fight in 5 min". The reality is these guys are looking for a warrior fantasy and Raw Combat gives them a way to express that and pretend like their prepared.

  3. #333

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    Luke Holloway, BS thread

    I ran across this guy on YouTube and began going through some of his videos.

    I first had a realization that some of his teaching was off when I saw him do an instructional seminar in NY city.

    He was demonstrating a technique in which he was fighting someone in a stand up, close in situation, and he demonstrated a sort of twisting flourish with his extended palm, meant ( I suppose) to show how he would turn his opponent's head before delivering a series of blows. At first I thought he was just being a bit dramatic, but then I saw him do it several times, which indicated that this was an actual part of the technique.

    Beyond the fact that something like that would never work in a real world, chaotic, street fight, it might also get you hurt if you are putting your fingers out there like that.

    Anyway, that motivated me to look more critically at his other videos, and I noticed some things he was doing wrong (if not outright absurd). For example, his demonstration of a "floppy punch" (my description) that, again, would not really work and probably get you hurt if you tried it (apparently i was mean to smash the bridge of someone's nose while they stood there).

    Also, (IANAL, or cop) I found some of his "finishing moves" to be quite problematic from a legal jeopardy standpoint.

    Some of the techniques for kicking opponents while they are on the ground (in once case he advocates breaking someone's arm while they are on the ground) are not the sort of thing I would want to go on world wide video advocating.

    Even if you do those things, you are asking for a world of trouble if you ever got in to a real fight. Even if you avoid criminal prosecution for "Assault, with serious bodily injury" after you kicked through some dudes arm as he braced to get up, any half assed lawyer working a civil case would have all your **** for the next 20 years after he showed a jury of you doing that to someone.

    The whole "credentials" thing doesn't bother me too much, I never got a black belt in any of the styles I trained in, and I know more than a few black belts who would get eaten alive in a real street fight. So I was able to give him the benefit of the doubt there, but watching him actually perform the mechanics of his hand to hand style is what put me off.

    I thought I would just get this off my chest because I stewing over this after watching his videos, and I wanted to see if anyone else felt the same way

    Cheers.

    -Ken

  4. #334

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    Attended Luke's Seminar this past weekend...

    I know this is an old thread but I ran across it while researching Luke Holloway before attending his seminar this past weekend. To be fair, this is my first post so I completely understand if you take what I say with a grain of salt. I remember seeing Luke's videos years ago when researching knife stuff. I trained with some of Vunak's students and his techniques were very similar. I hadn't followed-up with his videos for years. When I saw that he was holding a seminar in LA I googled searched to see what he had been up to and ran across this thread. I only read the first few pages and the last few pages for sake of time. I figured I'd add some insight from attending his seminar. I did own a dojo for ten years and have taught many seminars myself so my perspective may be different from a regular student. I notice things like when a story is told for affect, or the pacing of a seminar, etc. What really stood out for me was how nice of a guy Luke is. The location was difficult to find and he kept looking out for students, and checking texts, to make sure that everyone found the place. Before the seminar the attendees just chatted with him. I have attended seminars where the main instructor waits in a room until he is announced and never really interacts with the participants. Luke was just "one of the guys." There were military and law enforcement attending the seminar, some experienced martial artists, and also some very beginning martial arts students. He started with some combatives and then branched everything out from there, building upon each technique. He told stories throughout the seminar and joked around a lot with the participants. It was more like a "working out with buddies" in the backyard, which I think made a great environment for training. The seminar ended an hour later than scheduled because he kept showing more stuff (that was cool.) Every time someone would ask a question he would answer it with a technique to work on. The seminar was inexpensive ($50) and went on longer than anticipated. I appreciated that. I'm an old Villari guy and most of the seminars from back then included the instructor laying in on someone a few times to show superiority. That wasn't the case at this seminar. Luke did not come across with an ego. I think what stood out the most for me was how genuinely nice he is. I know there is a lot of talk on this thread (and forum) about legitimacy of credentials, and I can't speak to that. I tend not to care about the credential argument, as what I look for in a seminar is if I walk away learning something that I didn't already know. I enjoyed his seminar and I learned some cool stuff. If I were in a bar fight, I'd want Luke on my side. As I said before, this is my first post so feel free to take whatever I say with a grain of salt, but I wanted to give insight from the perceptive of someone who was at his seminar.

  5. #335

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kababayan View Post
    I know this is an old thread but I ran across it while researching Luke Holloway before attending his seminar this past weekend. To be fair, this is my first post so I completely understand if you take what I say with a grain of salt. I remember seeing Luke's videos years ago when researching knife stuff. I trained with some of Vunak's students and his techniques were very similar. I hadn't followed-up with his videos for years. When I saw that he was holding a seminar in LA I googled searched to see what he had been up to and ran across this thread. I only read the first few pages and the last few pages for sake of time. I figured I'd add some insight from attending his seminar. I did own a dojo for ten years and have taught many seminars myself so my perspective may be different from a regular student. I notice things like when a story is told for affect, or the pacing of a seminar, etc. What really stood out for me was how nice of a guy Luke is. The location was difficult to find and he kept looking out for students, and checking texts, to make sure that everyone found the place. Before the seminar the attendees just chatted with him. I have attended seminars where the main instructor waits in a room until he is announced and never really interacts with the participants. Luke was just "one of the guys." There were military and law enforcement attending the seminar, some experienced martial artists, and also some very beginning martial arts students. He started with some combatives and then branched everything out from there, building upon each technique. He told stories throughout the seminar and joked around a lot with the participants. It was more like a "working out with buddies" in the backyard, which I think made a great environment for training. The seminar ended an hour later than scheduled because he kept showing more stuff (that was cool.) Every time someone would ask a question he would answer it with a technique to work on. The seminar was inexpensive ($50) and went on longer than anticipated. I appreciated that. I'm an old Villari guy and most of the seminars from back then included the instructor laying in on someone a few times to show superiority. That wasn't the case at this seminar. Luke did not come across with an ego. I think what stood out the most for me was how genuinely nice he is. I know there is a lot of talk on this thread (and forum) about legitimacy of credentials, and I can't speak to that. I tend not to care about the credential argument, as what I look for in a seminar is if I walk away learning something that I didn't already know. I enjoyed his seminar and I learned some cool stuff. If I were in a bar fight, I'd want Luke on my side. As I said before, this is my first post so feel free to take whatever I say with a grain of salt, but I wanted to give insight from the perceptive of someone who was at his seminar.
    Hi, welcome to Bullshido!

    These new things (techniques? ) you learned, I assume you drilled them several times to get them down, probably with a partner? After that, did you then attempt to apply what you learned against am actively resisting partner? Perhaps some sort of free sparring scenario?

    Also, you mentioned you owned a dojo at one point. What sort of martial arts do you practice?

  6. #336

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tramirezmma View Post
    Hi, welcome to Bullshido!

    These new things (techniques? ) you learned, I assume you drilled them several times to get them down, probably with a partner? After that, did you then attempt to apply what you learned against am actively resisting partner? Perhaps some sort of free sparring scenario?

    Also, you mentioned you owned a dojo at one point. What sort of martial arts do you practice?
    There wasn't a lot of drilling, as it was a seminar (limited time). We worked techniques a bit and then went on to others. Seminars tend to be different than a typical class of teaching a concept, drilling it, and applying it in various scenarios. At my dojo I taught Kenpo as the core art, but added principles of Tang Soo Do (my first Black Belt), Arnis, and kickboxing (I was a sport karate guy for years). Right now I'm a Krav guy. After doing traditional arts for so long I felt that I needed something to fill in the self defense gaps that the traditional arts have. I have been in Krav for a few years now.

  7. #337

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kababayan View Post
    There wasn't a lot of drilling, as it was a seminar (limited time). We worked techniques a bit and then went on to others. Seminars tend to be different than a typical class of teaching a concept, drilling it, and applying it in various scenarios. At my dojo I taught Kenpo as the core art, but added principles of Tang Soo Do (my first Black Belt), Arnis, and kickboxing (I was a sport karate guy for years). Right now I'm a Krav guy. After doing traditional arts for so long I felt that I needed something to fill in the self defense gaps that the traditional arts have. I have been in Krav for a few years now.
    So no sparring? How does one test the usefulness of the techniques then?

  8. #338

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kababayan View Post
    I know this is an old thread but I ran across it while researching Luke Holloway before attending his seminar this past weekend. To be fair, this is my first post so I completely understand if you take what I say with a grain of salt. I remember seeing Luke's videos years ago when researching knife stuff. I trained with some of Vunak's students and his techniques were very similar. I hadn't followed-up with his videos for years. When I saw that he was holding a seminar in LA I googled searched to see what he had been up to and ran across this thread. I only read the first few pages and the last few pages for sake of time. I figured I'd add some insight from attending his seminar. I did own a dojo for ten years and have taught many seminars myself so my perspective may be different from a regular student. I notice things like when a story is told for affect, or the pacing of a seminar, etc. What really stood out for me was how nice of a guy Luke is. The location was difficult to find and he kept looking out for students, and checking texts, to make sure that everyone found the place. Before the seminar the attendees just chatted with him. I have attended seminars where the main instructor waits in a room until he is announced and never really interacts with the participants. Luke was just "one of the guys." There were military and law enforcement attending the seminar, some experienced martial artists, and also some very beginning martial arts students. He started with some combatives and then branched everything out from there, building upon each technique. He told stories throughout the seminar and joked around a lot with the participants. It was more like a "working out with buddies" in the backyard, which I think made a great environment for training. The seminar ended an hour later than scheduled because he kept showing more stuff (that was cool.) Every time someone would ask a question he would answer it with a technique to work on. The seminar was inexpensive ($50) and went on longer than anticipated. I appreciated that. I'm an old Villari guy and most of the seminars from back then included the instructor laying in on someone a few times to show superiority. That wasn't the case at this seminar. Luke did not come across with an ego. I think what stood out the most for me was how genuinely nice he is. I know there is a lot of talk on this thread (and forum) about legitimacy of credentials, and I can't speak to that. I tend not to care about the credential argument, as what I look for in a seminar is if I walk away learning something that I didn't already know. I enjoyed his seminar and I learned some cool stuff. If I were in a bar fight, I'd want Luke on my side. As I said before, this is my first post so feel free to take whatever I say with a grain of salt, but I wanted to give insight from the perceptive of someone who was at his seminar.
    Paragraphs please. I'm not gonna read this solid block of text

  9. #339
    Christmas Spirit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lindz View Post
    Paragraphs please. I'm not gonna read this solid block of text
    Here you go :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kababayan View Post
    I know this is an old thread but I ran across it while researching Luke Holloway before attending his seminar this past weekend. To be fair, this is my first post so I completely understand if you take what I say with a grain of salt. I remember seeing Luke's videos years ago when researching knife stuff.

    I trained with some of Vunak's students and his techniques were very similar. I hadn't followed-up with his videos for years. When I saw that he was holding a seminar in LA I googled searched to see what he had been up to and ran across this thread. I only read the first few pages and the last few pages for sake of time. I figured I'd add some insight from attending his seminar. I did own a dojo for ten years and have taught many seminars myself so my perspective may be different from a regular student.

    I notice things like when a story is told for affect, or the pacing of a seminar, etc. What really stood out for me was how nice of a guy Luke is. The location was difficult to find and he kept looking out for students, and checking texts, to make sure that everyone found the place. Before the seminar the attendees just chatted with him. I have attended seminars where the main instructor waits in a room until he is announced and never really interacts with the participants. Luke was just "one of the guys."

    There were military and law enforcement attending the seminar, some experienced martial artists, and also some very beginning martial arts students. He started with some combatives and then branched everything out from there, building upon each technique. He told stories throughout the seminar and joked around a lot with the participants. It was more like a "working out with buddies" in the backyard, which I think made a great environment for training. The seminar ended an hour later than scheduled because he kept showing more stuff (that was cool.) Every time someone would ask a question he would answer it with a technique to work on.

    The seminar was inexpensive ($50) and went on longer than anticipated. I appreciated that. I'm an old Villari guy and most of the seminars from back then included the instructor laying in on someone a few times to show superiority. That wasn't the case at this seminar. Luke did not come across with an ego. I think what stood out the most for me was how genuinely nice he is.

    I know there is a lot of talk on this thread (and forum) about legitimacy of credentials, and I can't speak to that. I tend not to care about the credential argument, as what I look for in a seminar is if I walk away learning something that I didn't already know. I enjoyed his seminar and I learned some cool stuff. If I were in a bar fight, I'd want Luke on my side. As I said before, this is my first post so feel free to take whatever I say with a grain of salt, but I wanted to give insight from the perceptive of someone who was at his seminar.
    Now I randomly broke up the text... so it may not make sense. I haven't even read the post but it seems like there could be some gold to be mined in there.
    Quote Originally Posted by ghost55 View Post
    Violence is pretty uncommon in clubs in this area, and the dude didn't seem particularly hostile up until the moment he slapped me.
    I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
    BILL HICKS,
    1961-1994

    Quote Originally Posted by WFMurphyPhD View Post
    Slamming the man in the bottom position from time to time keeps everybody on their toes and discourages butt scooting stupidity.

  10. #340

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tramirezmma View Post
    So no sparring? How does one test the usefulness of the techniques then?
    Great question. As a martial arts teacher for many years I would now debate the benefits of sparring after a certain rank, but that is for another conversation. I think a better term would be "scenario drilling" (and I am presuming that is what you are referring to.) There are many philosophies to seminars, depending on the audience. Some instructors like to come in and show random techniques, some gear the seminar around a certain principle and teach techniques and drills pertaining to the principle, and some do a combination of the two. Each have their own benefits, but now the conversation is veering away from the thread topic. Take care.

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