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**Sri Hanuman** · 8/12/2009 6:18am,

Go for it, Mr. Tripp.
Smack the reality back into chi powered hippies.

**Evil Solvalou** · 8/12/2009 6:22am,

This sounds brilliant; I'm looking forward to it. Is this something you're preparing or is it going to be a group Bullshido effort, and you're just rallying the troops?

**Urban Achiever** · 8/12/2009 6:27am,

I am posting this comment so I can subscribe to this thread. This looks to be fun.
:notworthy

**Sri Hanuman** · 8/12/2009 6:38am,

I'm always willing to provide illustrations, as long as they involve obscure situations, and questionable techniques.

**Mtripp** · 8/12/2009 6:40am,

First questions.

When did daito-ryu become daito-ryu aiki-jujutsu? If Judo was "crude" next to this system of supermen, why did Saigo leave it and join the Kodokan? More to the point, why would Kano send anyone to the Aikido Hombu to learn daito-ryu, when a master, Saigo, was at the Kodokan?

Suggested reading: Unlocking the Secrets of Aiki-jujutsu

Amazon.com: Unlocking the Secrets of Aiki-Jujutsu (9781570281211): H. E. Davey: Books

**cyrijl** · 8/12/2009 6:53am,

I am interested in your questions. I occasionally lurk on Aikiweb because there are some insightful people there, but the worship of Ueshiba is insane. Unfortunately, like every hero myth, the actual events get exaggerated over time. Part of it assuredly is accidental, but most of it is probably intentional. People feel the need to justify what they are doing. Unfortunately, these are the people who will never believe what you write/prove.

As soon as you ask that crowd "What is X?", they will ask for definitions of "X", "what" and "is".

**Mtripp** · 8/12/2009 6:56am,

Why does Hapkido claim daito-ryu roots when

1. There is ZERO evidence of any Daito-ryu master going to Korea
2. They HATE the Japanese?

**Mtripp** · 8/12/2009 6:57am,

Last one for the day:

What was happening in the 1960's that would open the door for Aikido to flousish in the US?

Clue, two things, one in the MA world, one in the entire world.

**Goju - Joe** · 8/12/2009 7:06am,

The thing about Ueshiba is a lot of stuff is taken (by Aikidoka mostly) out of context.

It's possible that Ueshiba used something that looks like Aikido effectively in the Japan Russian War.

However this was a war fought with bayonet charges which AIkido would be good training to deal with.

Especially when the bayonet is being wielded by some barely trained Imperial Russian serf

Context is everything

**DCS** · 8/12/2009 7:07am,

Originally posted by Mtripp View Post

When did daito-ryu become daito-ryu aiki-jujutsu?

Around the XX century 30's. I'll look and give you a more accurate timeframe.

If Judo was "crude" next to this system of supermen, why did Saigo leave it and join the Kodokan?

Saigo (born 1866) enrolled the kodokan as a teenager (in 1882). Him being some kind of AJJ master is totally BS.

More to the point, why would Kano send anyone to the Aikido Hombu to learn daito-ryu, when a master, Saigo, was at the Kodokan?

Saigo was removed from kodokan in 1899. Kano sent his guys to study under Ueshiba in the 30's.

Mr. Tripp, WTF?

**Eddie Hardon** · 8/12/2009 7:56am,

Originally posted by Mtripp View Post

First questions.

When did daito-ryu become daito-ryu aiki-jujutsu? If Judo was "crude" next to this system of supermen, why did Saigo leave it and join the Kodokan? More to the point, why would Kano send anyone to the Aikido Hombu to learn daito-ryu, when a master, Saigo, was at the Kodokan?

Suggested reading: Unlocking the Secrets of Aiki-jujutsu

Amazon.com: Unlocking the Secrets of Aiki-Jujutsu (9781570281211): H. E. Davey: Books

I'll admit to possessing a copy of The Dynamic Sphere by Adele Westbrook etc. I'll also admit to not yet having read it (a bit busy at the moment and I've only had it year).

I look forward to being educated by this Thread.

**Mtripp** · 8/12/2009 7:58am,

<<<Around the XX century 30's. I'll look and give you a more accurate timeframe.>>>

Yes, that is the claim today.

<<<Saigo (born 1866) enrolled the kodokan as a teenager (in 1882). Him being some kind of AJJ master is totally BS.>>>

Really? You might want to read what they say at the Aikijujutsu sites. Most claim the only reason Judo won in 1886 was because of the daito-ryu master Saigo being on Kano's team. So, now he was not a master, and oly a lowely teenager? You guys really want it both ways.

<<<Saigo was removed from kodokan in 1899. Kano sent his guys to study under Ueshiba in the 30's.>>>

So he taught no one while he was there? The entire time he was there he did not share the techniques, and Kano saw no value in them until 30 years later? Oh, wait, he didn't know any of them, even though he was the #1 guy at the Kodokan to fight in dojo bashing matches.

<<<Mr. Tripp, WTF?>>>

Exactly, and its why I am asking the questions.

**Mtripp** · 8/12/2009 8:01am,

Originally posted by Goju - Joe View Post

The thing about Ueshiba is a lot of stuff is taken (by Aikidoka mostly) out of context.

It's possible that Ueshiba used something that looks like Aikido effectively in the Japan Russian War.

However this was a war fought with bayonet charges which AIkido would be good training to deal with.

Especially when the bayonet is being wielded by some barely trained Imperial Russian serf

Context is everything

Secret film with 12 to 15 US Army or Marine attacking him, he just dances about smiling. This comes from an actual ad for an Aikido book from the '60's. Black Belt finally had to deal with these claims.

But the context is very clear.

His students claim he was also a Ninjutsu master, and he could leap up into a tree and hide.

Again, simple context... BS

**Mtripp** · 8/12/2009 8:03am,

Answers:

1. Judo was becoming an Olympic Sport; The AAU was holding Shiai all over the US, and you had to fight in them to get promoted.

2. Hello Hippies, peace-nicks, Jesus Freaks, and anti-war movement.

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