Aikido Supermen

[urasj]

How does showing Judo's inclusion in the Olympics and 'realling having to do it' side 'open the door for aikido to flourish in the US'?
Did all JMA's prosper in the relected glory of Judo or did this side of Judo drive sharlatans away from it and towards arts without competition, like aikido?

I don't think I'm confused about any of your your individual posts but or statements but don't see how they support your first quote.

Apart from that my popcorn's in the microwave.

I'm guessing that has something to do with how the growing hippi trend looked at Judo competitions compared to the friendly nature of Aikido.

[realjanuary]

Last one for the day:

What was happening in the 1960's that would open the door for Aikido to flousish in the US?

Clue, two things, one in the MA world, one in the entire world.

Answers:

1. Judo was becoming an Olympic Sport; The AAU was holding Shiai all over the US, and you had to fight in them to get promoted.

2. Hello Hippies, peace-nicks, Jesus Freaks, and anti-war movement.

Did 1 above increase interest in all JMA in the USA btw?

Number one means you really had to be able to do it, no more BS about doing it.

How does showing Judo's inclusion in the Olympics and 'realling having to do it' side 'open the door for aikido to flourish in the US'?
Did all JMA's prosper in the relected glory of Judo or did this side of Judo drive sharlatans away from it and towards arts without competition, like aikido?

I don't think I'm confused about any of your your individual posts but or statements but don't see how they support your first quote.

Apart from that my popcorn's in the microwave.

[Tom .C]

As an Uke in Judo, did you also resent Tori's "Victory".

[Mtripp]

OK, personal history.

Long ago, the days of Mark Scott and WXYT, we were at a huge martial art demo. Prior to a demonstration someone came up to me, lets call him "Bill." Bill was an aikido master, who for some odd reason claimed to be without uke. He came to me and pleaded with me to be his uke for the Aikido demo.

At moments like this, two people usually pop up on my shoulders. Gene LeBell on one side, and Cain (Kung fu) on the other. I should point out after my second divorce I killed Cain and only listen to Uncle Gene, but this day, I listened to Cain. I was the perfect Uke; a flawless uke, and a perfect fool.

To this day, it is told in some circles how the pure perfection of Aikido destroyed me. How "Bill" was the greatest Aikidoka ever, because he destroyed me so easily.

Now, did anyone ask "How did Mark attack him?" or "Was this a contest or a demonstration?" You get the point. Of course "Bill" always said to me "I have no idea why anyone would think that. You were a perfect uke and I thank you."

More to come.....

[Mtripp]

With reference to Shiro Saigo, I found the following article interesting; it appears to be well researched:
http://www.bestjudo.com/article15.shtml

As I recall Draeger differs on this, but his dates for Saigo's history differ from those of the Kodokan and hence are to my mind a little suspect.

This is, of course, outstanding.

[Res Judicata]

Why does Hapkido claim daito-ryu roots when

1. There is ZERO evidence of any Daito-ryu master going to Korea
2. They HATE the Japanese?

The story is that a Korean (Yong Choi Sul) lived in Japan for many years prior to WWII and was, if you listen to the Koreans, an adopted son of Takeda's. That's almost certainly not true. He may have been a servant/student, or he may have just taken some classes. There's no dispute that he was in Japan at that time and, after the War, began to teach Hapkido which has techniques in common with Daito-ryu.

Prior to the War, Korea was a Japanese colony. There was (and is) a large resident ethnic Korean population in Japan, some of whom are from Korean and others who have lived there for generations. The status of Korean's in Japan (Zainichi Koreans) in the pre-War period (and today) was complicated --- with a lot of very Japanese and Korean bullshit involved. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koreans_in_Japan

Mas Oyama was Korean, incidentally.

[Mtripp]

Number one means you really had to be able to do it, no more BS about doing it.

[Feryk]

With reference to Shiro Saigo, I found the following article interesting; it appears to be well researched:
http://www.bestjudo.com/article15.shtml

As I recall Draeger differs on this, but his dates for Saigo's history differ from those of the Kodokan and hence are to my mind a little suspect.

Fantastic article. Cuts right through the bullshit.

[realjanuary]

As it has only been stage setting so far it looks like the current YMAS thread and this one should swap places, but I'll be patient like I'm told...

Answers:

1. Judo was becoming an Olympic Sport; The AAU was holding Shiai all over the US, and you had to fight in them to get promoted.

2. Hello Hippies, peace-nicks, Jesus Freaks, and anti-war movement.

Did 1 above increase interest in all JMA in the USA btw?

I'm sure 2 helped aikido as it was a 'shiai free grappling art' in a package appealing to children of the age of aquarious (chicken and egg discussion goes here).

I'd love to hear an inside take on any of the stories that involved bullet dodging.

[Sophist]

With reference to Shiro Saigo, I found the following article interesting; it appears to be well researched:
http://www.bestjudo.com/article15.shtml

As I recall Draeger differs on this, but his dates for Saigo's history differ from those of the Kodokan and hence are to my mind a little suspect.

[Ming Loyalist]

So, next question; Is the Tea Ceremony about getting a cup of tea?

i always suspected that the tea ceremony was all a big set up for making fun of me when i rise at the end and try to walk with both my legs asleep after sitting seiza for the duration.

in all seriousness though, tea ceremony seems much more about ceremony, and respect than tea. there is a definite art to it, and unless i am mistaken, mastering the art of tea ceremony (or flower arranging, or zen gardening) is about the process of mastery and what that process does for your mind.

[Mtripp]

I am "setting the stage" insider info comes next. Patience grasshopper.

Yes, Zen Combat will have a very large place here.

So, next question; Is the Tea Ceremony about getting a cup of tea?

[lockfield]

Not sure who that is for; I have the book, and have read it.

did you see the parts of mystical power(flashes of light, disappearing, etc.)
i am very skeptical of that.

does anyone know a lot about the religious group ueshiba joined( i think it was named omoto-kyo)? are there any teachings that enhance "force of personality"(charisma, etc.) in that group?

[DCS]

- Unleashing the Secrets of Aiki-Jujutsu
- Aikido and the dinamic sphere
- Aikido: The way of harmony

May I suggest you to add Jay Gluck's "Zen Combat" for the list to reach kafkian levels of absurdity.

[Feryk]

I'm very interested in the original direction of this thread. I thought Mtripp was going to actually impart some information instead of just asking pointed questions. I personally don't know much about Aikido, and will admit to being skeptical about it's usefullness.

Debunking myth is an important function of this site. Mtripp, do you have any particular information regarding any of the Ueshiba/Saigo myths? Has anyone done a study of the actual historical records/firsthand accounts to get to the bottom of what is and is not true?

I study Wado, and I know the founder of our art held Ueshiba in high esteem, and as he got older, began to add some of the Aikido concepts into our style of Karate. I'd like to have a more realistic picture of the man than what most of the books say about him.