Aikido Question, yes?

[Matt Tower]

You best bet for good aikido is finding an instructor like this one http://www.aiki-buken.com/
This guy is an extremely good sword instructor who is adding more techniques to aikido to improve it's effectiveness

[maofas]

The principles of the art are sound, however it does take a long time to gain enough proficiency in the techniques before you can practice them with aliveness. On the rare occasion that I and my sensei are the only people at practice we will sometimes spar, him drawing on his karate background and I on my judo background. The Aikido that comes out of these sessions looks nothing like what you'll see in the videos of demonstrations and it tends to be the same few techniques: Iriminage, kokyunage, kaiteinage, ude-osae, ikkyo, nikkyo, and sankyo. It also takes some atemi (striking) to create openings for the techniques.

That sounds like it'd be really interesting to watch.

I have a limited background in a gendai goshin form of jits (vee jitsu), no big deal, but I can pull quite a few of the basic choreographed self-defensey moves we'd do (locks to takedown type things) while sparring with strikes if the other person isn't too difficult.

[Robert W]

Having studied Aikido for almost 9 years now, I can see how a lot of people can think that Aikido techniques are either unrealistic or ineffective. Part of this is due, in no small part, to some really lousy Aikido out there, like the flowery, make believe sort of stuff you see nowadays. But, it must be stressed that this is not the fault of Aikido as an art, but instead is solely the fault of the teacher who either willingly, or through ignorance, chooses not stress the martial aspect of the art.

Another huge problem plaguing the Aikido community is the lack of qualified weapons training. Aikido, as an art, is based on the sword. It's movement are that of the sword. Aikido does not throw, it cuts. This is part of the problem you see when someone attempts an Aikido technique with attitude of throwing an opponent. It just doesn't work that way.

What's more, Aikido techniques are designed to fail if you try to muscle your way through them. You can't, unless of course you're substantially stronger than your opponent, throw someone who doesn't want to be thrown. You have to use technique, not brute force.

Another common complaint I hear about Aikido is that it takes many years to develop competency in. This is to another fallacy. Ueshiba Sensei never said that you had to spend 10 years training to become competent. In fact, he said that if you paid attention and applied yourself dilligently, you could expect results in six months. A famous historical example of this would the famed Sumo wrestler Tenryu whom Ueshiba Sensei trained in roughly that same amount of time.

My personal opinion is that if there isn't any serious wepaons training (sword/jo) going on in an Aikido dojo, then you ought to find one that offers it, because unless you can cut with a sword, you're just not going to get it.

[JingMerchant!]

*Subscribe*

[wonko221]

It can be tough to wade through the strong opinions about aikido you'll find on the web. And many of these folks are justified in their animosity against aikido, as there are lots of instructors out there who jumped on aikido's popularity and taught fanciful and/or uselss crap. Finding the right instructor and classmates is more important than the right style, in my experience.

If you can find the right class, though, and spend just few months practicing aikido, you should benefit from increased confidence and a helluva lot of fun. For myself, aikido has helped me learn how to judge distance and how to move off-the-line to avoid colliding with an attack.

My primary training is in Judo. If i can get past a kick or a punch i would likely end up going for chokes or locks, or trying to take the fight to the ground. However, moving into that range with a trained striker can be dangerous. I do not doubt that my aikido training has helped me develop decent reflexes to close the gap.

And, as a caveat, if you're thinking of actual self-defense and not tournament fighting, think about a judoka or MMA enthusiast using their one-on-one grappling while getting crowded by more than one attacker. Aikido, as taught in my dojo, helps us work on developing environmental awareness, and deciding when to tie someone up in a controlling technique and when to attempt evasion, maybe a little throw here and there, and preparing to face the rest of the crowd.

Whatever you decide, play safe and have fun!

[Rock Ape]

Am I correct in surmising that your criticism of Chris' theory is with regards to A) effectiveness and B) overall approach of reverse engineering?

Effectiveness of his theories.. Or aikido ?

Reverse engineering isn't wrong, but to try to fix something that ain't broke is pointless. By that, I specifically mean that to make aikido into something which it isnt, is pointless.

I respect Chris for the dedication and enthusiasm he puts into his research but, IMO, he's searching for something that doesn't exist.

[Shiningwolf]

If you're completely set on Aikido and refuse to have your mind change. Then look for Shodokan Aikido, which is an Aikido style (dunno if thats the right word) that does do sparring. Though honestly, your time would be better spent doing Judo or something.

YouTube - SHODOKAN UK OPEN 2008 - Brazilian Team

YouTube - Shodokan Aikido - Osaka 2001

[1point2]

Aikido is a form of jujutsu, it is however an entirely untested system because as I said earlier, it was created after the Meiji Restoration. It has never therefore been through a process of combative development and evolution. Aikido it is also a synthesis of several influences, some of those are from empty-hand systems and some from weapon arts. These influences are not entirely apparent to someone without a fairly good knowledge of either a sword or spear system; this is because the movements and principles behind the usage of those weapons are fully integrated into Aikido taisabaki (Keeping it simple - I mean how someone who does aikido moves to achieve technique)

The problem with this form of movement is that although the aikidoka is primarily studying empty-handed technique, the methods of learning such applications are specifically orientated around the use of (a weapon) or the control of a weapon (used by someone else) - Hence Chris Hein's theories. These applications are also very stylised - almost as stylised as those kata found in much older martial traditions (another throw-back to koryu)

Am I correct in surmising that your criticism of Chris' theory is with regards to A) effectiveness and B) overall approach of reverse engineering?

[Rock Ape]

(I think I am consistent here, people have convinced me that the techniques can be useful to people who have solid fight training. This does not count as evidence, nor if true make it an effective martial art.)

It worked for me during a seven and a half year stint working as a Prison Officer, but by "worked for me" I still have a couple of scars to prove otherwise :-)

Look, if someone came to me and said they wanted to learn how to fight, either here on these forums or, to me face to face, I could not in good conviction advise them to study aikido, I think to do so would be morally wrong - but that's just me.

[mike321]

I wouldn't necessarily say that Aikido is not "street effective."

I would, not because I have a bone to pick with Aikido, but because I assume any martial art is not effective until proven otherwise. After all, people can fight without training, so the time and effort put into training needs to be justified. There must be some evidence of improved fighting skill. Back to Aikido, I have not seen the evidence of it being effective in a fight. Street, sports, or even in a demonstration. The demonstrations all have compliant partners.

(Also, I think I am consistent here, people have convinced me that the techniques can be useful to people who have solid fight training. This does not count as evidence, nor if true make it an effective martial art.)

[Kalivander]

I wouldn't necessarily say that Aikido is not "street effective." There are many decent techniques in the curriculum, it just seems that with every demonstration that I have ever seen(as it is with other styles) that Aikido only works for certain types of attacks. The attacker just goes with the breakfall to look fancy wall accomplishing a "wow" feeling from the uneducated audience. I still would love to have met Ueshiba, but I think he would even admit that it has been watered down, to say the least. Why not try aikijutsu?

[Rock Ape]

I'm fairly sure....

As it says on the tin I'm fairly sure that what I'm about to say, I've said several times before - I guess I'll never get tired of repeating myself so here we go...

Aikido is a gendai budo 現代武道 meaning that it was created after the meiji restoration and the declassification of Japan's feudal system, it is essentially a "modern" discipline. Officially recognised by the Japanese Government as a Budo in 1940(ish) when Ueshiba Morihei gave his budo the name of Aikido

[Goju - Joe]

That's fair enough. But i tend to strike hard and go for the ko, I only use wrestling as part of my game plan if the other guy is better standing

Sure it's just another option

I.E of someone through a telegraphed over hand right, some Aikido training could give you the technique of moving into the strike controlling the guys head and umping him on the ground with barely any effort as hes' providing the forward momentum.

If circumstances merited it.

The thing is Aikido has these step and throw techniques against strikes, and even though I haven't studied or practiced Aikido in 15 years I can still remember them but I could show them in a few hours and they don't need years to elarn.

[MMAMickey]

With boxing BJJ and wrestling in your style field the goal of using the attackers already broken balance (broken by throwing a strike) against them with the proper application of push/ pull head control would make more real life sense to you with you current experience than to an actual non cross training Aikidoka

That's fair enough. But i tend to strike hard and go for the ko, I only use wrestling as part of my game plan if the other guy is better standing

[Goju - Joe]

No Aikido uses similar push pull head control methodology as wrestling and uses it against strikes.

With boxing BJJ and wrestling in your style field the goal of using the attackers already broken balance (broken by throwing a strike) against them with the proper application of push/ pull head control would make more real life sense to you with you current experience than to an actual non cross training Aikidoka

So in that sense Aikido could be beneficial.

However to get the legitimate benefit you would have to wade through too much BS