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    #16
    I trained in Bujinkan Taijutsu for 2 years, and my weapon of specific training was the Hanbo. After that I studied Yang Tai Chi independently and with various teachers to help with my technique when I asked for it. I currently just study/practice Hanbojutsu independently, based off my previous teaching.

    I know Bujinkan gets a bad wrap since there is no aliveness training involved, and I recognize that. Im looking for something that has aliveness training, like a military combative school(maybe? im assuming there IS aliveness training?), and/or perhaps an art that involves the walking stick/Cane: like Hapkido.

    I was simply asking the question of WHAT IF X person trained for Z years in Aikido, would their training be legitimate for self defense? And if I could either A) train in aikido, with my previous background and be any good? lol or B) cross train in aikido with X, Y, or Z arts.

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      #17
      Originally posted by Tanulis View Post
      I was simply asking the question of WHAT IF X person trained for Z years in Aikido, would their training be legitimate for self defense?
      Probably not.
      And if I could either A) train in aikido, with my previous background and be any good?
      From a fighting/self defense perspective? See previous answer.

      B) cross train in aikido with X, Y, or Z arts.
      This is the way, as long said X, Y or Z arts are Judo, Greco-Roman Wrestling, Sambo, MMA, BJJ, Boxing, Kick Boxing or similar ones.

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        #18
        Originally posted by mike321 View Post
        I meant you could use the training not that those arts need it. (Nor do you have a critical need for aikido.) If anything, aikido needs those arts to be used. The point is that you could use the techniques as an interesting addition since you have styles that teach actual fighting already. Most sensible aikido types seem to like your training background.
        So basically, what you are saying is that aikido only works if you train in something else.. because it is about as useful as bill duff at a salad bar

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          #19
          No Aikido uses similar push pull head control methodology as wrestling and uses it against strikes.

          With boxing BJJ and wrestling in your style field the goal of using the attackers already broken balance (broken by throwing a strike) against them with the proper application of push/ pull head control would make more real life sense to you with you current experience than to an actual non cross training Aikidoka

          So in that sense Aikido could be beneficial.

          However to get the legitimate benefit you would have to wade through too much BS

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            #20
            Originally posted by Goju - Joe View Post
            With boxing BJJ and wrestling in your style field the goal of using the attackers already broken balance (broken by throwing a strike) against them with the proper application of push/ pull head control would make more real life sense to you with you current experience than to an actual non cross training Aikidoka
            That's fair enough. But i tend to strike hard and go for the ko, I only use wrestling as part of my game plan if the other guy is better standing

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              #21
              Originally posted by MMAMickey View Post
              That's fair enough. But i tend to strike hard and go for the ko, I only use wrestling as part of my game plan if the other guy is better standing
              Sure it's just another option

              I.E of someone through a telegraphed over hand right, some Aikido training could give you the technique of moving into the strike controlling the guys head and umping him on the ground with barely any effort as hes' providing the forward momentum.

              If circumstances merited it.

              The thing is Aikido has these step and throw techniques against strikes, and even though I haven't studied or practiced Aikido in 15 years I can still remember them but I could show them in a few hours and they don't need years to elarn.

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                #22
                I'm fairly sure....

                As it says on the tin I'm fairly sure that what I'm about to say, I've said several times before - I guess I'll never get tired of repeating myself so here we go...

                Aikido is a gendai budo 現代武道 meaning that it was created after the meiji restoration and the declassification of Japan's feudal system, it is essentially a "modern" discipline. Officially recognised by the Japanese Government as a Budo in 1940(ish) when Ueshiba Morihei gave his budo the name of Aikido

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                  #23
                  I wouldn't necessarily say that Aikido is not "street effective." There are many decent techniques in the curriculum, it just seems that with every demonstration that I have ever seen(as it is with other styles) that Aikido only works for certain types of attacks. The attacker just goes with the breakfall to look fancy wall accomplishing a "wow" feeling from the uneducated audience. I still would love to have met Ueshiba, but I think he would even admit that it has been watered down, to say the least. Why not try aikijutsu?

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                    #24
                    Originally posted by Kalivander View Post
                    I wouldn't necessarily say that Aikido is not "street effective."
                    I would, not because I have a bone to pick with Aikido, but because I assume any martial art is not effective until proven otherwise. After all, people can fight without training, so the time and effort put into training needs to be justified. There must be some evidence of improved fighting skill. Back to Aikido, I have not seen the evidence of it being effective in a fight. Street, sports, or even in a demonstration. The demonstrations all have compliant partners.

                    (Also, I think I am consistent here, people have convinced me that the techniques can be useful to people who have solid fight training. This does not count as evidence, nor if true make it an effective martial art.)

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                      #25
                      Originally posted by mike321 View Post
                      (I think I am consistent here, people have convinced me that the techniques can be useful to people who have solid fight training. This does not count as evidence, nor if true make it an effective martial art.)
                      It worked for me during a seven and a half year stint working as a Prison Officer, but by "worked for me" I still have a couple of scars to prove otherwise :-)

                      Look, if someone came to me and said they wanted to learn how to fight, either here on these forums or, to me face to face, I could not in good conviction advise them to study aikido, I think to do so would be morally wrong - but that's just me.

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                        #26
                        Originally posted by Simio de las Rocas View Post
                        Aikido is a form of jujutsu, it is however an entirely untested system because as I said earlier, it was created after the Meiji Restoration. It has never therefore been through a process of combative development and evolution. Aikido it is also a synthesis of several influences, some of those are from empty-hand systems and some from weapon arts. These influences are not entirely apparent to someone without a fairly good knowledge of either a sword or spear system; this is because the movements and principles behind the usage of those weapons are fully integrated into Aikido taisabaki (Keeping it simple - I mean how someone who does aikido moves to achieve technique)

                        The problem with this form of movement is that although the aikidoka is primarily studying empty-handed technique, the methods of learning such applications are specifically orientated around the use of (a weapon) or the control of a weapon (used by someone else) - Hence Chris Hein's theories. These applications are also very stylised - almost as stylised as those kata found in much older martial traditions (another throw-back to koryu)
                        Am I correct in surmising that your criticism of Chris' theory is with regards to A) effectiveness and B) overall approach of reverse engineering?

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                          #27
                          If you're completely set on Aikido and refuse to have your mind change. Then look for Shodokan Aikido, which is an Aikido style (dunno if thats the right word) that does do sparring. Though honestly, your time would be better spent doing Judo or something.

                          YouTube - SHODOKAN UK OPEN 2008 - Brazilian Team

                          YouTube - Shodokan Aikido - Osaka 2001

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                            #28
                            Originally posted by 1point2 View Post
                            Am I correct in surmising that your criticism of Chris' theory is with regards to A) effectiveness and B) overall approach of reverse engineering?
                            Effectiveness of his theories.. Or aikido ?

                            Reverse engineering isn't wrong, but to try to fix something that ain't broke is pointless. By that, I specifically mean that to make aikido into something which it isnt, is pointless.

                            I respect Chris for the dedication and enthusiasm he puts into his research but, IMO, he's searching for something that doesn't exist.

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                              #29
                              It can be tough to wade through the strong opinions about aikido you'll find on the web. And many of these folks are justified in their animosity against aikido, as there are lots of instructors out there who jumped on aikido's popularity and taught fanciful and/or uselss crap. Finding the right instructor and classmates is more important than the right style, in my experience.

                              If you can find the right class, though, and spend just few months practicing aikido, you should benefit from increased confidence and a helluva lot of fun. For myself, aikido has helped me learn how to judge distance and how to move off-the-line to avoid colliding with an attack.

                              My primary training is in Judo. If i can get past a kick or a punch i would likely end up going for chokes or locks, or trying to take the fight to the ground. However, moving into that range with a trained striker can be dangerous. I do not doubt that my aikido training has helped me develop decent reflexes to close the gap.

                              And, as a caveat, if you're thinking of actual self-defense and not tournament fighting, think about a judoka or MMA enthusiast using their one-on-one grappling while getting crowded by more than one attacker. Aikido, as taught in my dojo, helps us work on developing environmental awareness, and deciding when to tie someone up in a controlling technique and when to attempt evasion, maybe a little throw here and there, and preparing to face the rest of the crowd.

                              Whatever you decide, play safe and have fun!

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                                #30
                                *Subscribe*

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