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    #61
    Originally posted by DerAuslander108 View Post
    Fox, shut the fuck up. No one here has said kata suck. Your idea of the purpose of kata sucks.

    Neither of you have a clue what you're talking about. You have only ever studied school children level karate, passed on by a teacher who didn't have a clue as to what his art actually contained.
    yeah tell it to this guy who wrote poomse (kata) same shit teach a fighter to respond quickly to constantly changing motions. skills developed in Poomse (Kata) provide a strong foundation for sparring competition.

    Master Yong Sup Kil in the book Competitive TaeKwondo 2006

    Even though is WTF Taekwondo competition it dont matter if its WKF or AAU Karate its still the same. And I dont see master after your name .

    Comment


      #62
      Originally posted by DerAuslander108 View Post
      Fox, shut the fuck up. No one here has said kata suck. Your idea of the purpose of kata sucks.

      Neither of you have a clue what you're talking about. You have only ever studied school children level karate, passed on by a teacher who didn't have a clue as to what his art actually contained.

      I think your problem is you are too impressed with yourself . And to you yours is the only opinion that counts and you have a trained bunch of hyenas that follow at your heels that nod their heads in approval everytime you decree something .

      You dont know all there is to know .

      Comment


        #63
        I don't have to know all there is to know.

        But I certainly know more than you.

        You don't see Master after my name because I don't have any need to self-aggrandize.

        Fox,

        What is the original purpose of kata/hyung/pumse, and what was its original training methodology and place in training?

        Comment


          #64
          Every thread in this forum eventually turns into a kata debate. Fuck kata, I don't care either way, let's discuss the other 2 Ks of Krotty for once.

          The OP's teacher invited him to witness full contact brown/black sparring, and I'm curious to see how that turned out.

          Comment


            #65
            Fox, you want to tell me I don't know something?

            Prove it.

            I can prove that kata-dancing as advocated by Shotokan karate and all other "elementary school" derived karate systems are inferior to both modern "alive" training, and historical tode-tegumi training in as far as developing overall fighting ability & skill development.

            That is the only purpose of discussion in the TMA forums on Bullshido. If that's not what you want to discuss, then go elsewhere.

            If you want to discuss that, then you MUST PROVE that kata-dancing is AS EFFECTIVE as either alive training, or tode-tegumi.

            That is the only parameter that matters on this forum.

            So tell us, Fox.

            What was the original purpose of kata, and what was its place in tode training methodology?

            Comment


              #66
              Originally posted by DerAuslander108 View Post
              I don't have to know all there is to know.

              But I certainly know more than you.

              You don't see Master after my name because I don't have any need to self-aggrandize.

              Fox,

              What is the original purpose of kata/hyung/pumse, and what was its original training methodology and place in training?

              You dont self aggrandize , thats a laugh ,

              Why dont you tell me oh great one :bowdown:

              Comment


                #67
                Originally posted by DerAuslander108 View Post
                Fox, you want to tell me I don't know something?

                Prove it.

                I can prove that kata-dancing as advocated by Shotokan karate and all other "elementary school" derived karate systems are inferior to both modern "alive" training, and historical tode-tegumi training in as far as developing overall fighting ability & skill development.

                That is the only purpose of discussion in the TMA forums on Bullshido. If that's not what you want to discuss, then go elsewhere.

                If you want to discuss that, then you MUST PROVE that kata-dancing is AS EFFECTIVE as either alive training, or tode-tegumi.

                That is the only parameter that matters on this forum.

                So tell us, Fox.

                What was the original purpose of kata, and what was its place in tode training methodology?

                And Ive said a zillion times Kata coupled with live training and other supplementary training ie cardio , weight training helps make you a better fighter.

                Sure I can go take boxing probably never do a kata but it isnt Karate now is it , and truth is I could tale a louisville slugger with no training I d be the baddest motherfucker except if I come across some one with a gun .

                But if you are going to do Karate , or most KMA or CMA then Kata is part of the game.

                Could some dojos over rely on it yes. But a good dojo will have a good mix of The kata and the alive training. nobody disagrees you need the pads the bags the live resisting opponent , that we can agree on. But to say Kata is useless as a training aide to help you become more adept at shifting positions and strong foundations I disagree with that.

                Comment


                  #68
                  Originally posted by foxguitar View Post
                  But I dont know if he didnt do all that would we even be discussing martial arts. or would it still be a secretive thing ttaught in secret from father to son in private.
                  Yes, because it was Funakoshi who popularised the Japanese martial arts. Without Funakoshi no one outside of Japan would be learning JMA.

                  Oh wait...

                  Spoiler:

                  Comment


                    #69
                    In my view kata (the 1 man dancing versions) are a simple catalogue of moves you should already know - it is a way to transmit knowledge of the art to a student like a dictionary would. Its not meant to be the way you learn the moves though. Further I'd say in the modern age where we can record moves etc. kata are mostly now useless.

                    Comment


                      #70
                      Originally posted by foxguitar View Post
                      Why dont you tell me oh great one :bowdown:
                      No, Fox.

                      A) Tell me what the original purpose of kata was in tode-tegumi.

                      B) Given that, tell me what it's place was in the training regimine for combat.

                      This is the only thing that will be discussed here. No one else is to comment.

                      If you do not know, Fox, simply respond that you don't know.

                      Comment


                        #71
                        Originally posted by DerAuslander108 View Post
                        No, Fox.

                        A) Tell me what the original purpose of kata was in tode-tegumi.

                        B) Given that, tell me what it's place was in the training regimine for combat.

                        This is the only thing that will be discussed here. No one else is to comment.

                        If you do not know, Fox, simply respond that you don't know.
                        OK I dont know , What Ive read was thats how the art was Taught , And the difference was they didnt practice the exhorbitant amount of Kata like prevalent today for example Choki Motubu only did Naihanci .

                        But I know they didnt do sport Karate then . The fights were real and people died and there was no 2nd place trophy. its alot different today .

                        Comment


                          #72
                          Right.

                          You don't know.

                          So shut the fuck up & let the grown-ups talk instead of spitting the same ignorant bullshit over & over.

                          You don't know enough to take part in the conversation, thus when someone says something, you spin out of control & accuse people of things they didn't say.

                          For example, I am one of the foremost advocates for the necessity of kata in karate training. However, I can't even start that conversation with you, because you're too busy spouting your ignorant bullshit based off of an extremely limited understanding of elementary school karate.

                          I'm tired of having to talk to a 50-year old man with a career in law enforcement the same way I have to talk to the 15 year olds who come on this site thinking they know everything after watching one UFC.

                          Can we have an adult conversation or not?

                          You're so worshipful of old Japanese men, you can't stomach the fact that they might have been wrong about the nature of their martial art & its training, because they were only given a limited glimpse of what their martial art actually was. That is not my individual criticism, that is historical fact. Any scholarly research into karate's history will support me.

                          The purpose of this forum is to discuss progressive training in the traditional martial arts. For that to occur, a complete understanding of those arts is necessary. If you are completely happy with your training in Shotokan & derive pleasure & personal benefit, then I am glad for you & wish you the best of luck in your path. If you are not interested in discussing the continued development of karate, then I recommend you look at other forums to post on. If you cannot follow this forums Terms of Service, you are trolling.

                          You have derailed several discussions on several different forums with your inanity to the point where many consider you nothing but a troll.

                          Are you a troll?

                          Are you willing to have a mature, rational discussion?

                          Comment


                            #73
                            Originally posted by DerAuslander108 View Post
                            Right.

                            You don't know.

                            So shut the fuck up & let the grown-ups talk instead of spitting the same ignorant bullshit over & over.

                            You don't know enough to take part in the conversation, thus when someone says something, you spin out of control & accuse people of things they didn't say.

                            For example, I am one of the foremost advocates for the necessity of kata in karate training. However, I can't even start that conversation with you, because you're too busy spouting your ignorant bullshit based off of an extremely limited understanding of elementary school karate.

                            I'm tired of having to talk to a 50-year old man with a career in law enforcement the same way I have to talk to the 15 year olds who come on this site thinking they know everything after watching one UFC.

                            Can we have an adult conversation or not?

                            You're so worshipful of old Japanese men, you can't stomach the fact that they might have been wrong about the nature of their martial art & its training, because they were only given a limited glimpse of what their martial art actually was. That is not my individual criticism, that is historical fact. Any scholarly research into karate's history will support me.

                            The purpose of this forum is to discuss progressive training in the traditional martial arts. For that to occur, a complete understanding of those arts is necessary. If you are completely happy with your training in Shotokan & derive pleasure & personal benefit, then I am glad for you & wish you the best of luck in your path. If you are not interested in discussing the continued development of karate, then I recommend you look at other forums to post on. If you cannot follow this forums Terms of Service, you are trolling.

                            You have derailed several discussions on several different forums with your inanity to the point where many consider you nothing but a troll.

                            Are you a troll?

                            Are you willing to have a mature, rational discussion?

                            Ok Im willing but are you also willing to do it in away thats give and take and not lose yoour mind if someone dares to think different.

                            I am definitely willing to engage in a non mudslinging intelligent discussion

                            Comment


                              #74
                              Originally posted by DerAuslander108 View Post
                              Fox, shut the fuck up. No one here has said kata suck. Your idea of the purpose of kata sucks.

                              Neither of you have a clue what you're talking about. You have only ever studied school children level karate, passed on by a teacher who didn't have a clue as to what his art actually contained.
                              and as if you do?

                              Comment


                                #75
                                Originally posted by Patcherson View Post
                                and as if you do?
                                Shut the fuck up, you ignorant half-assed pretentious cock.

                                Try contributing to the site a little. Try actually saying something of worth. Try using correct grammar. Try not being a little punk on these boards.

                                Do you even know what this site is about? Do us a favor and don't post for six months. Lurk the forums a little while and reconsider whether this is the place for you. I'll give you a hint: we aren't MAP, we don't care about your stupid wrong "opinions", and we're trying to discuss and advocate for specific aspects of martial arts.

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