Ninpo Grappling Video

[OniSan81]

I live in Montreal, on the West Island, Pointe Claire. It was there that I started in Kyokushin under Master Paul Desmarais, then I did some boxing with a man named Oliver (cannot remember last name), and he introduced me to Otis Grant and his brother I believe. It was a long time ago, but I met Mr Grant and left with the best of impressions, he was incredibly polite and kind. Unfortunately, the man I trained with, Oliver, later committed suicide. I now live in Toronto.

[rw4th]

I live in Montreal, on the West Island, Pointe Claire. It was there that I started in Kyokushin under Master Paul Desmarais, then I did some boxing with a man named Oliver (cannot remember last name), and he introduced me to Otis Grant and his brother I believe. It was a long time ago, but I met Mr Grant and left with the best of impressions, he was incredibly polite and kind. Unfortunately, the man I trained with, Oliver, later committed suicide. I now live in Toronto.

Did you study anything else in the Montreal area and in what year? We may know the same people.

[mrgoshthereturn]

oni kudaki, ahhh, i do love that phrase. It's considered one of the most impoortant basic locks in booj, and yes, essentially it is a kimura. I do both bjj and booj and considering both evolve from JJJ there will be quite a few moves in common. It's the way they train that is diferent. Generally Booj varies a lot in standard, Bjj doesn't.

As for the vid, well done, I'm still working on my bjj gam,e as i am a total noob but that guy seems to need work on his transitioning. Do you know where he trains?

[SuperGuido]

OniSan-

Here is a video of some BJJ White Belts grappling:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoLUr0JM1NI

Sure, it isn't spectacular...but the fundamental buildings blocks of basic BJJ grappling are displayed.

To further your grappling experience, I would highly recommend that you find some matted space and get off the grass. That will enable you to train at a higher level of intensity with less risk of injury...and by training with greater intensity, your basic technique will improve. Then, "Grass Grappling" may be more beneficial for you.

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Alright, BJJ hat off. Genbukan hat on.

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I trained with the Genbukan for six months a few years ago. I thoroughly enjoyed the experience, and I would definitely train there again if I were ever inclined to pursue anything Ninpo-ish.

The strengths of the Genbukan, in my opinion, were:

1. Standardized Curriculum

2. Extreme Attention to Detail

3. Strict Standards

4. Emphasis on Basic Technique

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Nowhere in that equation was "Submission Grappling" mentioned.

Why?

Because Genbukan Ninpo, Kokusai JuJutsu, Koryu Karate, Chugoku Kempo, or any other "sub style" within the Genbukan does NOT contain Submission Grappling.

The organization is not set up as a "Kodokan Ninpo" headquarters designed to host and sponsor grappling tournaments.

The goals are different. The training is different. The structure is different. The instruction is different.

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What's my point, you ask?

The Genbukan does a number of things well.

-Solid "Ninpo" technique, trained in high repetition.

-Extreme attention to detail ensures that no nuance of any technique is missed.

-Standardized curriculum ensures that what I'm doing in America will be recognized in Japan.

-Precise etiquette, preserved to enable transmission of traditional values.

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This is what the Genbukan does WELL. This is what it was designed to do. This is its FUNCTION.

Stop trying to cram a square peg into a round hole. The Genbukan does not teach (or claim to teach) competitive grappling in any way, shape, or form. Attempts to display such WILL fail, unfortunately, as you are attempting to accomplish a goal with an improper tool.

Instead, let the Genbukan remain what it is. Let it do what it does best. Appreciate it for what it does...and instead of forcing it to conform to another set of standards, perhaps you should reevaluate your martial arts goals.

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Genbukan Videos:

YouTube - Genbukan World Takai 2007 in Japan

YouTube - Kukishin Bojutsu Genbukan Version

Dailymotion - Shoto tanemura, une vidéo de Shaolin-luohan. ninja, genbukan, sensei@@AMEPARAM@@http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/x2jer3@@AMEPARAM@@x2jer3

[OniSan81]

Hi Satori,

Thank you for your well written and informative response.

I hope I have made it clear that the Genbukan does not focus on such techniques, or ground fighting in general. I was only trying to show that myself, as a practioner of Ninpo, try to branch out in a full resistance way. I understand the Genbukan does NOT focus or claim, in any way, to be experts in the ground fighting arena. Absolutely. Nor will I achieve the ground submission capacity of a BJJ practioner. Again, I just wanted to show that some Ninpo practioners are not afraid to test out what they know in that environment, and not afraid to lose, in order to learn. I just know so many traditional practioners, of any style, who will not grapple or anything, because their techniques are considered "too deadly" and so on.

Your video of the white belts show, with great respect, the strong basics and attention to ne waza that BJJ is known for, even on that level.

I never mentioned my martial arts goals, just showing what I know of grappling. My goals after twenty years remain the same, which is just to learn. Thanks for the thread and also posting videos. And thank you about the advice for more mat work. I'll have to find some cheap mat space for rent :icon_thum

[Troy Wideman]

Sweep: Fubi & Hosaku
Kimura: Gyaku Oni Kudaki

You will also see these techniques in the higher levels of the following styles;

Asayama Ichiden Ryu Tai Jutsu
Hontai takagi Yoshin Ryu (Ishitani den)
Shinden Fudo Ryu Ju TaiJutsu - as mentioned already



Kind Regards,

Troy Wideman
Canadian Genbukan

[Troy Wideman]

These techniques are found within the lower and higher levels of the following style;

Hontai Takagi Yoshin Ryu (Ishitani Den)
Asayama Ichiden Ryu Tai Jutsu
Shinden Fudo Ryu Ju Taijutsu



Kind Regards,

Troy Wideman
Canadian Genbukan

[OniSan81]

Alright, one last grappling video with my Judoka friend. The video starts with him having my back, and my escape attempts. I don't know if mae hadaka jime is in a Ninpo syllabus, so don't crowd me for it.

I've done my personal best to reach out to the grappling community by competing in tournies and events. I hope more Traditional practioners will do so as well, so that we are not always lombasted for hiding behind our deadly techniques.

I'd like to come sometime to a Toronto Throwdown as well, and learn and share.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNhZSP06UOU