Ninpo Grappling Video

[OniSan81]

Hi everyone,

I've dreaded this moment, but I am going to throw my hat into the conversation here, regarding Ninpo and its techniques etc etc.

I belong to the Genbukan, and I have to say I really enjoy it. I've been involved in martial arts since I was six years old, started in Kyokushin and boxing (was under Otis Grant). I now study Wado Kai, Kokusai Jujutsu (Gen), Ninpo Bugei (Gen), and Submissions (BJJ, Catch Wrestling).

My teacher for Ninpo, I feel, is very progressive, and encourages us to try out techniques in a full resistance manner. As a result, we spend considerable time trying adapt our kihon to a more live environment. He also teach FMA, and has a Shodan in Kodokan Judo. I think we get a strong mix of experience in there.

As far as the differences between the Genbukan and Bujinkan, I don't want to comment too much. I was in the Bujinkan and my experience was bad and I thought ill towards Ninpo in general. I was then encouraged to look at the Genbukan, and there are some major difference in philosophy and technique. I don't proclaim it to be the REAL style, nor am I anything spectacular. With all that said, I have met a few Bujinkan guys who seem to be really solid as well.

I do want to share one video of myself grappling with an individual who did BJJ. We grappled from our knees, as we did not want to be throwing each other in an area where there were sheds and walls. I have spent a great deal of time trying to study Japanese Jujutsu and wrist locks, and TRYING to apply them by grappling. JJ is hard to apply without striking I find, but every now and then, it is possible. I do like MMA, I do feel as though Ninpo has a place in martial arts, but I do believe that its practioners must gain more respect through resistance training and challenging themselves, in a positive well natured way.

I manage to pull off a kneeling version of Omote Gyaku here, at the 0:31 mark. This is against a far heavier opponent, and the technique is a little messy, but the principle did work. He did not flip through the air, as I would see in an Aikido demonstration, but he did turn to his back due to the pressure on his wrist. This enabled a side mount, and a sloppy arm bar. I've been schooled before by BJJ guys, and sometimes I've been able to slip in wins too.

I am just presenting this video as a topic of discussion, and to show that such a technique can work, and that there are some Ninpo practioners (in my experience particularly in the Genbukan), who are trying. I'm not making any claims of dominance in one style over another, and I pulled off a low percentage move, I understand that. Nonetheless, since there are no other guys posting Ninpo full resistance videos, I thought I'd try it out.

Just as a final note, in Kokusai Jujutsu we do lots of these old school style kata, from the knees. In some ways, this almost looks like a kata, just less stylized and clean. The only way I have EVER been able to make Japanese Jujutsu work is by swallowing my ego and testing it out on such terms.

I tried to embed here guys, sorry, wasn't working. Here is the link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkOTKGmtmpk

[pauli]

where the fuck did you FIND that guy? that was pretty dire, top to bottom.

i'll give you credit for getting your knees tight. the armbar finish was decent, but everything up to it was >_<

[OniSan81]

Yes, evidently he wasn't very good. I totally agree. And evidently, my finess in terms of grappling isn't jaw dropping.

I wish I could proclaim I took out a high level practioner of a great style, but I didn't.

I do have other videos of some competitions, with good practioners, and I will get those up eventually. I just wanted to share a video with a wrist throw, because I never personally see those techniques being used, and wanted to show that they CAN work, just not all that often.

Again, this is really about the wrist throw, not my average grappling skills. I just want to show an example of a less than clean, but nevertheless, wrist throw.

Thanks for the nice words though, especially from a purple belt, which is no joke in BJJ.

[ONE TWO THREE FOUR FIVE]

To me it looked like relatively inexperienced guys grappling, which is what you say it is so I take no issue with that. What I will say is the way you set up the wristlock takedown wouldn't work against a more experienced guy, at least not often. You have bot your arms across your body, thats really inviting him to come under both of them with his left arm and cinch them together to then turn you.

If you want to keep working that technique I'd suggest angling off and stretching your opponent out before trying it in the future, it might work though, it isn't that dissimilar to waki gatame in some ways, or at lest the set up need not be.

[danniboi07]

Basically what was said before.

I will give you props on giving it a shot though. I'm glad to see you applying these techniques in a more realistic manner. Plus I never saw a wristlock takedown like that in an actualy grappling situation. Keep practicing and post other videos as you get better.

[BSDaemon]

What I take exception to, is that you labled this as "vs. Brazilian Jiu Jitsu". The fat guy you tapped out tried to escape mount with a CAN OPENER. Usually, mount escapes are the first lesson you get. If he has any BJJ experience at all it is certainly an ABSOLUTE bare minimum. He certainly doesn't hold any rank in BJJ other than a white belt, which doesn't really count.

You beat some inexperienced guy, not a Brazilian Jiu Jitsu practitioner, so your video titling is BS.

[plasma]

not giving this video any legitimacy. However, I love how when Hedge defeated the ninjer all the bujinkan-ka were like "that isn't how I train, that isn't the real bujinkan." And now when the Genbukan defeated the BJJer, the BJJers come out of the wood work claiming that isn't the real BJJ.

Also that wrist lock takedown was embarrassing. Your opponent needs to get some skills stat.

[maofas]

Post some striking sparring vids; civilized people strike!!!

Edit: No seriously (if you have some footage lying around). I'm curious to see stuff from the Genbukan.

[BSDaemon]

not giving this video any legitimacy. However, I love how when Hedge defeated the ninjer all the bujinkan-ka were like "that isn't how I train, that isn't the real bujinkan." And now when the Genbukan defeated the BJJer, the BJJers come out of the wood work claiming that isn't the real BJJ.

Also that wrist lock takedown was embarrassing. Your opponent needs to get some skills stat.

It isn't really a matter of how this guy trained, but a mater of the technique being utilized... A can opener to escape mount... Aka, gift wrapped armbar.

There are two mount escapes which a beginner to BJJ will learn, the elbow knee escape, and the Upa (bridge and roll). The Upa mount escape is pretty much the first thing that any beginner will be taught, which proves that this so-called BJJ guy didn't learn much if any BJJ whatsoever.

[OniSan81]

He said he studied in the US, that's what I know. But I'll take your critique in regards to the title and even remove the title from the video. I am certainly not trying to get by, by fooling myself or anyone else. In my second post, I say that this is really about the wrist throw in a full resistance way, not about my mediorce grappling skills. Nonetheless, I agree, maybe my titling is presumptious and unfair.

Here is another video with a Judoka. It is a little more dynamic. He was so strong on his feet and pulled me over. Not sure about his level of experience, other than he did it for several years in Spain.

This is the best I can do in regards to Submissions right now, as a Ninpo practioner.

It is not the focus of Ninpo, but I think it is agreeable that there is a fraction of such training within the style, or at least if you have a good teacher. Of course, we are no where close to the proficiency of ground work that is displayed by a good BJJ practioner, Wrestler, Judoka, or otherwise.

Just giving what I can here, thanks for the comments, and I hope Ninpo evolves to gain more respect slowly.

Another one...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gcpUd18Mcw

[rw4th]

not giving this video any legitimacy. However, I love how when Hedge defeated the ninjer all the bujinkan-ka were like "that isn't how I train, that isn't the real bujinkan." And now when the Genbukan defeated the BJJer, the BJJers come out of the wood work claiming that isn't the real BJJ.

Also that wrist lock takedown was embarrassing. Your opponent needs to get some skills stat.

The Ninja Hedge took down claimed to have advanced skills. In this video OniSan says he's fighting a "BJJ guy" which at face vales leads you to expect that his opponent has at least some jiu-jitsu skill when it's painfully obvious from the video that he's got a best a few months (if not weeks) of training. BTW, the wrist lock IS taught at my BJJ school as a low percentage gimmick move.

OniSan what part of the world are you in?

[BSDaemon]

Nice sweep & Kimura, respekt to you.

Please show us the ninpo scrolls that contain these techniques.

[OniSan81]

I live in Canada.

The Genbukan is a very tight organization with a very strict set of rules. If you ask me questions about the organization, for better or for worse, I have to ask permission to respond to them, so that I respond appropriately. I do not claim to be a great practioner from the Genbukan, but I do currently train there, and they have changed my mind about Ninpo. I also honestly do not know if such techniques (such as Kimura), are in some of the scrolls, perhaps someone more understanding of the history could say. I do know, however, that I have seen achilles lock and techniques like Ude Gatame and variations of Kimura in the official syllabus.

Thanks for the critiques, comments, and some of the positive remarks. I know that no matter what I am told, our knowledge of pure ground combat cannot stack up to those who focus on it. I hope, however, this has given an example of at least one Ninpo practioner (amongst other styles), who is trying to be progressive and attain a set of skills.

[plasma]

Nice sweep & Kimura, respekt to you.

Please show us the ninpo scrolls that contain these techniques.

Sweep: Fubi & Hosaku
Kimura: Gyaku Oni Kudaki

[rw4th]

I live in Canada.

Where in Canada? Otis Grant is in Montreal.