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    #31
    Originally posted by shinbushi
    My wife says Greeks never suck dick (:() they are too proud to get on their knees for anyone. But sounds like you have. Must be a 'Macedonian' thing.
    Which Shihan?
    I live in Japan for 7 yrs (also I started training in 1985) and trained under Nagato Sensei.
    Regularly translated for Nagato Sensei and Soke?
    Is this your wife? YouTube - Obama's greatest challenge - Europe is a country and everyone speaks french here

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      #32
      Originally posted by Plasma
      From someone that hates the Bujinkan, has been kicked out of Bujinkan Dojos and had Bujinkan Instructors call my instructor to "tattle" of my lack of respect. You sir are an idiot. Until you learn a little more and stop nutriding MT and BJJ you aren't worth arguing with. In fact I probably have more BJJ training then you.
      While his post is full of nutriding, he has some valid points. I don't buy that training in the "old days" of the Bujinkan was any better. I was in the Buj in the 80's and experienced the "hard" training, but for all the pain we inflicted on each other, sparring or anything like it was still ridiculed as something "sports" did. I also do not believe that sparring or real pressure testing was ever a part of the Bujinkan. They may have hit each other hard, they may have gone fast, and the training may have been much more physical, but I don't think it ever qualified as "alive" training.
      Last edited by rw4th; 8/08/2008 12:25pm, .

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        #33
        Originally posted by rw4th
        While his post is full of nutriding, he has some valid points. I don't buy that training in the "old days" of the Bujinkan was any better. I was in the Buj in the 80's and experienced the "hard" training, but for all the pain we inflicted on each other, sparring or anything like it was still ridiculed as something "sports" did. I also do not believe that sparring or real pressure testing was ever a part of the Bujinkan. They may have hit each other hard, they may have gone fast, and the training may have been much more physical, but I don't think it ever qualified as "alive" training.
        What the fuck is "nutriding" ? Whatever it is, I didn't do it!

        So, as you say, you are quite "old" in the Bujinkan. Maybe you can answer me this:

        I really wonder, why not even one instructor from the Bujinkan has ever step up with the idea of a "larger" tournament to test and improve taijutsu?

        I know that most ninjers would consider it silly, but couldn't you (that saw its flaws as I understand) just gather other 20 tough people that love to spar, from around your state and set up an informal tournament, with the prospect of becoming larger and having people testing their taijutsu in a continous basis?

        I mean , if you think about it it is not that difficult to create a taijutsu tournament that would be close to reality and would involve 99% of its techniques.

        You can make it very realistic and safe at the same time if you want to, so the rest of the ninjers would not have many excuses to back off from the invitation:

        -Ref draws lottery tickets for the place, so you dont know where you will fight: it can be street, woods, ice, beach, dojo, living room each one including actual objects that you can trip to or use.

        -Short time limit like a real fight, fighters are showered with icy cold water to simulate fear and body shock.


        -You use swim googles for eye-gouges: If your opponent strikes/gouges one of your googles, referee paints it black so you cant see and you fight with only half of your eye-sight.

        -Once in a while a third practitioner attacks one of the two fighters for 10 seconds and then retreats again (or two other fighters attack for 5 seconds). In this way you simulate multiple attackers.

        -Ref throws once in a while a foamed stick or those tazer-like knifes between the fighters. Whoever gets it, keeps it! Paintball gun might be considered...you are shot in a non-vital point: you take the pain on your naked body (ouch!) and continue.


        Fuck, I start writing it for fun but now that I review it does not sound that bad after all..hahaha.

        I bet that even if something like this would be set up, most ninjers would just say "ninpo is for survival, not ego-boosting competitions that have nothing to do with real life-threating situations. This is a sport not martial arts".

        But seriously, have any of the Bujinkaners ever thought "o.k, what are we going to do with this shit to make it work, to make it better, to make it more effective?" And I mean to think about it in a "scientific", challenging way, not to just conclude that they need to visit the Hombu more often.....

        Comment


          #34
          Originally posted by shinbushi
          My wife says Greeks never suck dick (:() they are too proud to get on their knees for anyone. But sounds like you have. Must be a 'Macedonian' thing.
          I can testify that Greek women do indeed suck dick!:XXsmoker:
          ______
          Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

          RIP SOLDIER

          Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
          -Gene, GODHAND

          You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
          The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
          -Daniel Tosh

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            #35
            How is this still in MABS?

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              #36
              I could care less about boojy politics, but this part of your post doesn't make sense. You're talking about restricted targets and speed interchangeably and comparing the booj to bjj.

              Do a search on "deadly techniques" and you'll find out what the consensus is on this - basically that they are low percentage moves that are no substitute for proper techniques for achieving dominant positioning or preventing submissions in grappling. Not to say they wouldn't EVER work, but to dismiss an entire system and range of combat solely on one or two moves is ridiculous.

              As for speed, you can do pretty much anything in BJJ in a live, fully resisting grappling environment. That's one of the strengths of combat sports in general, that you can do the techniques of the system live.

              Comment


                #37
                Originally posted by Gabetuno
                How is this still in MABS?

                I'm making a list for when I get more bored of people who need temp bans for shitting up MABS.
                Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.
                "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

                "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

                My Bullshido fan club threads:
                Tom Kagan's a big hairy...
                Tom Kagan can lick my BALLS
                Tom Kagan teaches _ing __un and bigotry?
                Tom Kagan: Serious discussion here
                Lamokio asks the burning question is Tom Kagan a pussy or just cruising for some
                I'm Dave the gay Kickboxer from Manchester and I have the hots for Tom Kagan
                TOM KAGAN, OPEN ME, THE MKT ARE COMING FOR YOU ! ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH TO MEET ?
                ATTN TOM KAGAN
                World Dominator 'Kagan' in plot to lie about real Kung Fu and Martial Arts
                Tom Kagan just gave me my third negative rep in a day
                I am infatuated with Tom Kagan
                Tom Kagan is a fat balding white guy.

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                  #38
                  Ah....











                  <ducks and covers>

                  Comment


                    #39
                    15 years ago when I started kukishinden we trained real hard, just as hard as any Bjj or MT.
                    Some mornings I,d wake up and was so sore I had to ring in sick at work.
                    Ive done a few other martial arts after that but none have been as hard as kukishinden.
                    No other MA has been 100% full contact 100% of the time except Bjj.
                    They now teach Bjj as well to strengthen the grappling already in the art, but I must say that things have softened since 15 years ago. People are so scared of being hurt these days.
                    If your not scared to go to training then your in the wrong place.:toothy4:

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Originally posted by Helm
                      15 years ago when I started kukishinden we trained real hard, just as hard as any Bjj or MT.
                      Some mornings I,d wake up and was so sore I had to ring in sick at work.
                      Ive done a few other martial arts after that but none have been as hard as kukishinden.
                      No other MA has been 100% full contact 100% of the time except Bjj.
                      They now teach Bjj as well to strengthen the grappling already in the art, but I must say that things have softened since 15 years ago. People are so scared of being hurt these days.
                      If your not scared to go to training then your in the wrong place.:toothy4:
                      Again, I repeat, hard training does not mean either aliveness or sparring. There are some stupid kung-fu and karate schools that pass their students through tremendous pain with stupid routines that have nothing to do with fighting (beat them with sticks, needles in forearms etc). The fact that your body was sore means shit. Standing still and taking pain without reacting does not make you tough. Anyone can stand still and take pain for a short amount of time when they expect it.
                      It is another thing to actually spar against a full resisting opponent that throws you whatever he wants.
                      You can stand still and take baseball bats to the ribs, boshikens to the neck and ura gyakus that make you scream from pain....but the unpredictable (even half-powered) hook that will hit you when you don't except it will actually put you through more pain...and experience.
                      In the end, experiences like these is what makes you a better fighter...and not pain it self. Pain which is not "wired" to certain habits in fighting (like "shit, I must be carefoul to hold my hands up all the time!") does nothing but abuse your body.

                      And no, people these days are not scared to hurt themselves, ninjers are.
                      Last edited by gladius; 8/10/2008 6:38am, .

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Originally posted by Helm
                        15 years ago when I started kukishinden we trained real hard, just as hard as any Bjj or MT.
                        Some mornings I,d wake up and was so sore I had to ring in sick at work.
                        Ive done a few other martial arts after that but none have been as hard as kukishinden.
                        No other MA has been 100% full contact 100% of the time except Bjj.
                        They now teach Bjj as well to strengthen the grappling already in the art, but I must say that things have softened since 15 years ago. People are so scared of being hurt these days.
                        If your not scared to go to training then your in the wrong place.:toothy4:
                        What are your personal experiences in training either BJJ or MT? How is your instructor qualified to teach BJJ?

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Well for one we were,nt beaten with sticks as suggested by another poster lol.
                          We were allowed to fight free form, we were allowed to throw hard on to a wooden floor, we were allowed to hit as hard as we could, it meant you wanted to move instead of standing still and taking the hit and if you didnt move then it was your fault.
                          Ive been knocked out on my feet, had a muscle torn in my back as well as other injuries.
                          I have seen others get injuried some quite bad- that was kukishin.

                          My instructor is training under John Will, he is a brown belt in Bjj and 5th Dan Kuki.
                          Bjj blew me away, so much to learn. Once I got used to not being able to get a full lung of air on the bottom I was away. I hate it when your on the bottom and being smoothered, the air is hot and it feels like you going to suffercate, = panic!!
                          Ive been doing Bjj on and off for about 4 years. Last training I nearly got my ear torn off, man it friggen hurt, came up abit pusy too.

                          I met a couple of ninjutsu guys and they were pretty hard, good tech,s strong punches and exellent rolling skills (they dont do Bjj). Mind you most MA in this country are pretty hard and stripped to tech,s that have been tested and that work, no fairy shit. Im going to go check out their club and see whats up, might take a camera too with the hope of putting up something worth watching(i hope)

                          Go hard or go home.:wave:

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Great, yet another poster with t3h r34l b00j1nk4n.

                            Can we please move this to YMAS so that our community can deal with this with an appropriate level of levity and/or lolcats?

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Originally posted by Helm
                              Im going to go check out their club and see whats up, might take a camera too with the hope of putting up something worth watching(i hope)

                              Go hard or go home.:wave:
                              Yea, you do that. And post it here please. I would like to see to the "real Bujinkan". We have seen Bujinkan/taijutsu (to include the other crappy cans) training videos a thousand times and it is bullshit as hell, so another one is not needed. But we would love to see some sparring videos of those hard bujinakn members you describe.

                              And please , ask them in a nice way to pull in full contact sparring (if they can) JUST ONE move from the kihon happo or the basic variations. It would do no good to your argunemnt to see another ninjer fighting with guillotine chokes , double legs, boxing punches and by holding guard.
                              Remember: to be a good ninjer you have to punch vertically, lunge punch once in a while when the opponent is in distance and submit opponents standing up with gyukus or onikudakis.....You get the point.

                              I was just viewing one video in Youtube in which a boztepe ving tsuner (wing,ving whatever) beat in a mma fight a bjj guy. The guy who posted it insisted that the tsuner beat him with ving tsun, although the tsunner used boxing stance, boxing punches and knock the other guy out while inside his guard with wild g' n p' haymakers a la Coleman (he crosstrained of course, in thai and bjj I think).
                              The tsunners insisted that when they fight their style looks different than trained (so different that they themselves violate the cornerstone principles of their system as it seems).
                              Their arguments were really ridiculous , they could stretch their theories so much that extended ving tsun to everything, even in those things that are never included in a ving tsun curriculum (sil lim tao has boxing uppercuts buawhahaha!).

                              We also had some members here doing the same thing with taijutsu. One guy (I think was from genbunkan though) tried to prove that he used taijutsu while sparring. Another guy in the original forum ask him if he had ever pull an Onikudaki one someone fighting back. And the ninjer answers "Many times" only to add "on the ground" , meaning of course a normal chicken wing/v-armlock (which by the way is different in hand placement than an onikudaki) using judo-bjj principles (hip control, dominance etc) from the side mount.

                              He to insisted that somewhere in one ancient ninja scroll or in an old photo of takamatsu this technique existed in ninpo way before bjj. He did not of course explained neither where he got the set-ups and the principles behind the technique nor why before the boom of mma this technique was never seen in videos, taikais and training halls of ninpo.

                              Thus to put it clear, we would like to see (if it's possible) the cornerstone techniques of taijutsu applied, not some third-rate MMA match. I bet if videos like these existed a lot of people would shut up about the crapness of taijutsu.
                              Instead, we get people that try to convince us that when and if they spar what they do is taijutsu when it is clear that ALL their moves are the cornerstone moves of other "alive" systems, badly and inaccurately applied.
                              Funny how these other alive systems never use by accident ninpo moves because their systerms "looks different when applied".
                              Can you imagine Tyson lunge punching or Nogueira applying an omote takeori on an match: "Just because I train bjj does not mean that everything must look like it when I fight! That omote takeori exists in bjj already from Helio's time, it is a gi choke applied on the nerves of the opponent's hands!" Fat Chance.





                              Last edited by gladius; 8/11/2008 6:29am, .

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                                #45
                                Originally posted by gladius
                                I just dont buy the "closed doors no camers" bs. They where plenty of cameras around when it was time to film "the revenge of the jumping ninjer with the Tengu mask".
                                You "don't buy" it??? Well, that's sweet. Why don't you go find out yourself, or contact the older individuals mentioned and see what they say about it? Just because someone practices martial arts and there are martial arts movies being made by someone somewhere, that they have access to, or are so inclined as to purchase, video equipment so that 30 years later there is proof for YOUR dumb ass.
                                Get it?:icon_thum
                                Last edited by Jim_Jude; 8/11/2008 6:38pm, .

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