Do you guys seriously doubt Robert Bussey's abillity?

[shadow_priest_x]

This is my first post . . . so go ahead and do what you do to first time posters.

But I will say this: I did search for Robert Bussey and found a lot of really negative posts. I admit . . . I was shocked. I can expect to find "Ashida Kim" or "Konigun ninjutsu" as 'bullshido' but, for god's sake, not Bussey. He's a solid MA practitioner and devastating fighter. That's TRUTH. He may not longer be teaching traditional ninjutsu but the fact of the matter is the he can fuck a lot of people up.

I think you guys might be going overboard. He's a solid MA guy. Believe it.

[G-Off]

Who are you a duplicate account for?

[shadow_priest_x]

Who are you a duplicate account for?

I'm not a duplicate account for anybody. Hell, I originally came here to ask some questions about Tae Kwon Do, but ended up drinking a lot of Tecate and searching deeper into the forums. I have corresponded with Bussey personally and have also conducted an interview with a guy who has seen Bussey in action. (Why an interview, you say? Because I previously had an article published in Blackbelt mag and was hoping for a follow up. Didn't happen, though).

Bussey is a damn good martial artist and damn good practitioner. The fact that people doubt this honestly does shock me. These days it seems like if you can't be a champ in then UFC then clearly your art or style is "bullshido!"

[DKJr]

Is this him?

[G-Off]

Ok, really...so what are you claiming in terms of his effectiveness? What is he good at? I've never even heard of the guy.

[shadow_priest_x]

Ok, really...so what are you claiming in terms of his effectiveness? What is he good at? I've never even heard of the guy.

You've never HEARD of the guy . . . and you're giving me shit? HUH?!?! Seriously, Robert Bussey deserves respect. He's kind of old now, but his teachings are almost like a precursor to modern day MMA. He was a Bujinkan practitioner for a long time and then broke away because he didn't think traditional Bujinkan was as effective as it could be. Then be broke away and sort of did his own thing. Regardless of any of that, the guys does not deserve a bunch of shit from people on a message board.

What I'm saying is that he's a legit martial artist and to call his abilities or intentions into question is supremely fucked up.

EDIT: What he's good at is fucking people up.

[G-Off]

You've never HEARD of the guy . . . and you're giving me shit? HUH?!?! Seriously, Robert Bussey deserves respect. He's kind of old now, but his teachings are almost like a precursor to modern day MMA. He was a Bujinkan practitioner for a long time and then broke away because he didn't think traditional Bujinkan was as effective as it could be. Then be broke away and sort of did his own thing. Regardless of any of that, the guys does not deserve a bunch of shit from people on a message board.

What I'm saying is that he's a legit martial artist and to call his abilities or intentions into question is supremely fucked up.

EDIT: What he's good at is fucking people up.

Great. Evidence please, now. I don't need to read any more text without evidence.

[shadow_priest_x]

Great. Evidence please, now. I don't need to read any more text without evidence.

First off, I assume you're relatively new to the MA game. And by new I don't mean you got into yesterday but I would say that you got into it within the last decade or so. Bussey was big in the 80s but he's still around. (Don't take that as insult. Just surprised you haven't heard his name.)

I admit I'm a bit apprehensive to do this because people on this forum seem to WANT to talk shit about anything and everything. But I will anyway. Keep in mind this was a video that was produced in the mid-90s. Disregard the crazy ass growling he does . . . that's just him.

YouTube - RBWI Strikes

[G-Off]

First off, I assume you're relatively new to the MA game. And by new I don't mean you got into yesterday but I would say that you got into it within the last decade or so. Bussey was big in the 80s but he's still around. (Don't take that as insult. Just surprised you haven't heard his name.)

I admit I'm a bit apprehensive to do this because people on this forum seem to WANT to talk shit about anything and everything. But I will anyway. Keep in mind this was a video that was produced in the mid-90s. Disregard the crazy ass growling he does . . . that's just him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHXUxw1NsLI

Here's the problem...that's not evidence of his ass-kicking or people-fucking-up ability. Evidence is him kicking ass against a non-compliant opponent. Even a video of him sparring against a student with a less restrictive ruleset than TKD allows would be decent at judging his skill. Anyone can perform a compliant demo against a student who falls down on cue.

And you're right, I've been training since 1994, actually paying attention to the MA community since about 2002.

[shadow_priest_x]

Here's the problem...that's not evidence of his ass-kicking or people-fucking-up ability. Evidence is him kicking ass against a non-compliant opponent. Even a video of him sparring against a student with a less restrictive ruleset than TKD allows would be decent at judging his skill. Anyone can perform a compliant demo against a student who falls down on cue.

And you're right, I've been training since 1994, actually paying attention to the MA community since about 2002.

I hear what you're saying. My point is simply that he's not a wannabe. He's the real deal. Maybe combat has evolved past what he was doing in the 80s and 90s but he's a devastating practitioner that doesn't deserve the hate that I've read on here. That's like saying because Bruce Lee isn't doing what Randy Couture is doing today then clearly he was a fraud and had no skills? Again: HUH?!?!

Do I have video of him competing in some no-holds-barred tournament? No, I don't. But then again I don't have video of Bruce Lee competing in any underground shit either but we all know he was the real deal.

[G-Off]

I hear what you're saying. My point is simply that he's not a wannabe. He's the real deal. Maybe combat has evolved past what he was doing in the 80s and 90s but he's a devastating practitioner that doesn't deserve the hate that I've read on here. That's like saying because Bruce Lee isn't doing what Randy Couture is doing today then clearly he was a fraud and had no skills? Again: HUH?!?!

Nothing to do with his system/techniques or anything. I don't even bother critiquing the techniques he used in that video (though some seemed silly) because who knows? They might work in a real situation. But until I see evidence of them being effective, again, even in sparring, even standup sparring, I will remain skeptical about them.

I don't have video of Bruce Lee competing in any underground shit either but we all know he was the real deal.

No. We. Don't. Which is exactly the point. Opinions vary wildly on how effective Mr. Lee actually was as a fighter because there is no video evidence, no boxing record, nothing to provide actual physical evidence of his fighting prowess other than testimonials from his own students/family. There's quite a large discussion thread about it, we had it last month: Yeah, we went there! May is Bruce Lee Sucks Month - No BS Martial Arts.

[shadow_priest_x]

Nothing to do with his system/techniques or anything. I don't even bother critiquing the techniques he used in that video (though some seemed silly) because who knows? They might work in a real situation. But until I see evidence of them being effective, again, even in sparring, even standup sparring, I will remain skeptical about them.

Well, some of his shit does seem kind of silly. I'll give you that. But like any martial art, so much depends on the practitioner. Consider this: One of the techniques he demonstrates is a jab-cross combo. Who would say that in the hands of a skilled fighter a jab-cross combo is ineffective? That spinning body elbow thing is pretty cool too, at least in my opinion. . .

No. We. Don't. Which is exactly the point. Opinions vary wildly on how effective Mr. Lee actually was as a fighter because there is no video evidence, no boxing record, nothing to provide actual physical evidence of his fighting prowess other than testimonials from his own students/family. There's quite a large discussion thread about it, we had it last month: http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=69410.

Oh, come on now. Bruce gave a lot of public demonstrations. Say what you will, but I think all evidence points to Bruce being able to hang will all the pro full contact fighters of his day. We're talking about guys like Chuck Norris and Bill Wallace. How would he do against guys like Randy Couture or Tito Ortiz? Well, first off we should probably address the fact that we're talking about heavyweights and light-heavyweights against a bantamweight. (After all, Bruce is on record as being around 135 lbs.) A better analogy would be, how would Bruce do against Faber or Chase Beebe? I don't know . . . but I'd put my money on him.

[G-Off]

Well, some of his shit does seem kind of silly. I'll give you that. But like any martial art, so much depends on the practitioner. Consider this: One of the techniques he demonstrates is a jab-cross combo. Who would say that in the hands of a skilled fighter a jab-cross combo is ineffective? That spinning body elbow thing is pretty cool too, at least in my opinion. . .

No listen, that's not my point. I don't care if things look silly. If they look silly and work, then cool! Genki Sudo has done some of the silliest things I have ever seen in a fight and he was a fucking amazing fighter (come back, please). A jab cross combo may be effective historically (and contemporarily), sure. But can Bussey do it effectively against someone trying to hit him back? That's the real question, because the argument here is Robert Bussey's abilities, not his techniques.

Oh, come on now. Bruce gave a lot of public demonstrations. Say what you will, but I think all evidence points to Bruce being able to hang will all the pro full contact fighters of his day. We're talking about guys like Chuck Norris and Bill Wallace. How would he do against guys like Randy Couture or Tito Ortiz? Well, first off we should probably address the fact that we're talking about heavyweights and light-heavyweights against a bantamweight. (After all, Bruce is on record as being around 135 lbs.) A better analogy would be, how would Bruce do against Faber or Chase Beebe? I don't know . . . but I'd put my money on him.

This is an argument better suited to more informed people (and a different thread that's already happened), but suffice it to say that witness testimony can be wildly unreliable, and public demonstrations are almost always compliant. The broad point to be drawn is that physical evidence trumps all other forms of evidence. Bruce discussion really should go elsewhere though.

Also, Bill Wallace is a douche who couldn't hang with a Muay Thai fighter of his day in his prime, which is why he stayed away from them. I don't have evidence of Wallace specifically, but I do have the next best thing. Namely, a champion fighter from the ruleset Wallace fought under (American kickboxing) fighting a Muay Thai fighter. Not sure from when. In any case, here's the fight (it's a long one): Chanpuek Kiatsongrit (MUAY THAI) vs Rick Roufus (KICKBOXING). You may know that the kickboxing champ Rick Roufus switched to Muay Thai-like rules in years after this fight. Be sure to watch at least into the 3rd round.

[Petter]

Oh, come on now. Bruce gave a lot of public demonstrations. Say what you will, but I think all evidence points to Bruce being able to hang will all the pro full contact fighters of his day. We're talking about guys like Chuck Norris and Bill Wallace.

Well, he trained with them, but according to Joe Lewis, who also trained with him, he never actually fought.

[Kentucky Fried Chokin]

The best way, and for many the only way, to prove Mr. Bussy's abilities is to provide video evidence of him fighting.