Does Hatsumi know his ninja ryu lineages are fake?

[Soju_King]

i dont see why Togakure-ryu would be so "exclusive".......its not like its some ultimate form of ninpo........Togakure-ryu is for the most part a defensive and evasive ryuha

that is very hyped up

[jessenwarrior]

i dont see why Togakure-ryu would be so "exclusive".......its not like its some ultimate form of ninpo........Togakure-ryu is for the most part a defensive and evasive ryuha

that is very hyped up

I agree its a defensive ryuha, I also agree its over hyped. There is so much more in the takamatuden arts that could be shown. These ryuha are exclusive like so many others because they are japanese family traditions and represent the arts founding the family linage, culture and fighting arts. So this means more to japanese people because its cultural, this is also what makes the menkyo kaiden so coveted.

[kendamu]

Evidence? I'm pretty sure that Takamatsu Sensei's "autobiography" isn't available publicly.

http://www.jinenkanseigi.com/takamat...obiography.htm
http://www.budotaijutsu.co.uk/budo_t...biography.html
http://www.kbninjutsu.com/takamatsu1.html

That's three of the four copies I found on the first page of a Google search.

:seppuku:

[Muqatil]

Happy for you. You found a very short article that some people call an autobiography. Not what I was talking about, but thank you anyway.

[Muqatil]

This article states that his autobiography was never released. http://www.joergjungkunz.de/dojo/interview.pdf

I seem to recall a quote from Hatsumi-Sensei stating the same thing.

[Permalost]

Takamatsu had some interesting things to say:

"In the martial arts there is no need to concentrate only on the aspect of winning when fighting. However, not to commit one's self to the fight is not a "martial art" - it is simply violence and such a person does not have an honest heart and is anti-humanist. Nowadays, there is a sport of Judo which concentrates upon the pleasure of fighting and the building up of their bodies. They only want to win and because of this they bend at their waist when fighting rather than maintaining their bodies upright. When I think of this judo sport, since its birth from real martial arts, I feel ashamed and it gives me a chilling sensation. A true martial artist wins by using the natural movements of the highest quality techniques and if one moves the body according to this theory then one will of course win. In martial arts you need three points; these are:"

This one, too:
"When I had been training for some time I decided that I wanted to know more about ninjutsu, and myself so I went to a mountain known as Maya-san in Kobe prefecture. At the mountain I lived by a waterfall called Kamenotaki for a period of one year. I stayed in a cottage the size of two tatami mats and lived on beans with no boiled rice. My training partners were the rocks around my cottage. Sometimes I would exercise my finger tips by hitting the rocks. I would jump up on the rocks with my Kiai and then jump off. During this time I developed a special sense. For instance: I could stand at the top of the mountain and know how many people were coming up, I could tell if they were men or women or otherwise. I became known as the "sennin" or "tengu" of the mountain. "

[plasma]

Takamatsu had some interesting things to say:

"In the martial arts there is no need to concentrate only on the aspect of winning when fighting. However, not to commit one's self to the fight is not a "martial art" - it is simply violence and such a person does not have an honest heart and is anti-humanist. Nowadays, there is a sport of Judo which concentrates upon the pleasure of fighting and the building up of their bodies. They only want to win and because of this they bend at their waist when fighting rather than maintaining their bodies upright. When I think of this judo sport, since its birth from real martial arts, I feel ashamed and it gives me a chilling sensation. A true martial artist wins by using the natural movements of the highest quality techniques and if one moves the body according to this theory then one will of course win. In martial arts you need three points; these are:"

This one, too:
"When I had been training for some time I decided that I wanted to know more about ninjutsu, and myself so I went to a mountain known as Maya-san in Kobe prefecture. At the mountain I lived by a waterfall called Kamenotaki for a period of one year. I stayed in a cottage the size of two tatami mats and lived on beans with no boiled rice. My training partners were the rocks around my cottage. Sometimes I would exercise my finger tips by hitting the rocks. I would jump up on the rocks with my Kiai and then jump off. During this time I developed a special sense. For instance: I could stand at the top of the mountain and know how many people were coming up, I could tell if they were men or women or otherwise. I became known as the "sennin" or "tengu" of the mountain. "

Like most Japanese Martial arts, they get soft and "special" in their old age. I still prefer the Takamatsu who fought a challenge match with a Musashi-ryu practioner, was deafened by a Happa Ken defense to Seio Nage, then Takamatsu broke his ribs. The later in life post retirement rants and such I pretty indifferent too.

Muqutil, as for the autobiography, its on the Bujinkan no-no list as it contradicts many of Hatsumi's teachings.

[Permalost]

Does the Bujinkan have an Index of blasphemous texts?

[plasma]

Yeah, history books.

[hiken]

Yeah, history books.

:icon_roll :icon_roll :icon_roll

[Fitz]

Muqutil, as for the autobiography, its on the Bujinkan no-no list as it contradicts many of Hatsumi's teachings.

You're thinking of the biography that Wolfgang Ettig wrote Takamatsu Toshitsugu: The Last Shinobi. The autobiography that was mentioned is an unpublished work retained privately.

[plasma]

Hmmm, I'll ask my friend for the book again, so I can see. You are probably right.

[Muqatil]

Muqutil, as for the autobiography, its on the Bujinkan no-no list as it contradicts many of Hatsumi's teachings.

If you mean the BIOgraphy that someone wrote on their own, you're kind of right.

This short essay is not on any "no-no" list that I know of, nor does it contradict anything I've been told or taught.



Edit: Crap! Just read Fitz's email. What he said.