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    #61
    Im in favor of failing people who are not prepared , by that I dont mean a flub but if you freeze up while doing a form you supposedly practiced many many times . Then IMHO you are not ready to be promoted either mentally or physically or both.

    A promotion should mean something . Im not saying you make the standards universal because a 51 year person like myself is not a teen ager But it should be relevant and challenging and by the end of the test I want to know I earned it.

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      #62
      Were the plastic rebreakable boards the correct color?

      Those plastic boards can be tricky. The bricks are even more devious.

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        #63
        I'm an ATA member, and i think that my master reads this website.

        We have a night dedicated to full contact sparring, with a round or two of full contact on the other nights. (except for a week or two before an ATA tournament)

        He only holds testing 4 times a year. but the tests are more of a formal thing. the week or two before he does an hour long test (i know that's not as long as some of yours, but according to the stories i've read, longer than 90% of the ATA) and if he thinks you didnt do well, he asks you not to come to the formal test. and thus, you aren't promoted. i just recieved my green belt (5th rank) and probably won't reach the next one till thanksgiving time frame. i have been in for a year and a half.
        However, some people have slipped by. but all the older (19 and above) black belts can hold their own with the amatuer fighter (mma, or ufc, i'm not sure which, but his next fight is aug 29th)

        we do use breakable plastic boards, but only to practice. for the tests, you have to use actual wooden boards.

        anyways, thanks for making a difference.

        Comment


          #64
          Originally posted by Wenfield View Post
          I'm an ATA member, and i think that my master reads this website.

          We have a night dedicated to full contact sparring, with a round or two of full contact on the other nights. (except for a week or two before an ATA tournament)

          He only holds testing 4 times a year. but the tests are more of a formal thing. the week or two before he does an hour long test (i know that's not as long as some of yours, but according to the stories i've read, longer than 90% of the ATA) and if he thinks you didnt do well, he asks you not to come to the formal test. and thus, you aren't promoted. i just recieved my green belt (5th rank) and probably won't reach the next one till thanksgiving time frame. i have been in for a year and a half.
          However, some people have slipped by. but all the older (19 and above) black belts can hold their own with the amatuer fighter (mma, or ufc, i'm not sure which, but his next fight is aug 29th)

          we do use breakable plastic boards, but only to practice. for the tests, you have to use actual wooden boards.

          anyways, thanks for making a difference.

          good luck in your training and always have a open mind and decide for yourself if something is good.

          I did ATA for a short period of time I had 2 real good instructors in Mr. and Mrs Johnson in Shirley NY. This is going back to 1994 . But they were decent practioneers and instructors and really believed in the ATA. I was already a WTF 1st Dan when I joined their school and I stayed probably less then a year but it was ok and I dont regret it.

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            #65
            When I started training earnestly, I joined ATA when I was 15. The owner of the school was "Chief Master" Bill Clark and the Head Instructor was Emiglio Lopez. I was there for a bit more than a year and earned my black belt.
            Now, even when I was going there, I was aware of their reputation. I could see it with my own eyes, as well.
            I know that a year is considered too short a time, but I would like to say that I feel I did EARN my black belt. Whereas most martial arts practitioners (whether ATAers or not) go to two or three classes a week, I attended at least five every week (M,W at 8: regular class; M,W at 9: instructors class; F at 8: just sparring). I also trained at home and sparred with anyone whenever I could.
            I was being taught not just the regular curriculum, but also how to TEACH the curriculum. This required a lot more training.
            I was definitely more devoted than any other student there (at least the ones around my age). Even when I was a white belt, I could sometimes beat some black belts in my age group in sparring.

            I worked my ass off and did seminars and Krav classes whenever I could. Eventually, very shortly after earning my black belt, I had to leave the school because of some downright improper business practice.

            I kind of wish that my training had started in something more effective, perhaps, but I do think that since I was aware and was a relatively smart, but still dedicated, student that I did get a lot out of it.

            I also feel the need to express my appreciation for one instructor in particular: Arpak Mafie. He was a great martial artist and definitely earned more respect from me than anyone else there because he stressed physical fitness and self-defense (he was primarily a Krav guy).

            Comment


              #66
              Originally posted by Long Quan Do View Post
              When I started training earnestly, I joined ATA when I was 15. The owner of the school was "Chief Master" Bill Clark and the Head Instructor was Emiglio Lopez. I was there for a bit more than a year and earned my black belt.
              Now, even when I was going there, I was aware of their reputation. I could see it with my own eyes, as well.
              I know that a year is considered too short a time, but I would like to say that I feel I did EARN my black belt. Whereas most martial arts practitioners (whether ATAers or not) go to two or three classes a week, I attended at least five every week (M,W at 8: regular class; M,W at 9: instructors class; F at 8: just sparring). I also trained at home and sparred with anyone whenever I could.
              I was being taught not just the regular curriculum, but also how to TEACH the curriculum. This required a lot more training.
              I was definitely more devoted than any other student there (at least the ones around my age). Even when I was a white belt, I could sometimes beat some black belts in my age group in sparring.

              I worked my ass off and did seminars and Krav classes whenever I could. Eventually, very shortly after earning my black belt, I had to leave the school because of some downright improper business practice.

              I kind of wish that my training had started in something more effective, perhaps, but I do think that since I was aware and was a relatively smart, but still dedicated, student that I did get a lot out of it.

              I also feel the need to express my appreciation for one instructor in particular: Arpak Mafie. He was a great martial artist and definitely earned more respect from me than anyone else there because he stressed physical fitness and self-defense (he was primarily a Krav guy).
              Your post is indicative of all that is wrong with the majority of ATA schools.

              My coworker is training really hard too, has been in for about a year and tested for level one instructor ranking. He thinks he's earned it too.

              Comment


                #67
                I certainly respect what you're saying, and I do acknowledge delusion as a possibility. It always is.

                I definitely wouldn't say that ATA provides enough, though. It provided me with a base, and I've enjoyed more my cross-training and simply exchanging with friends from other arts.

                Comment


                  #68
                  I was working out for free at an ATA school for a little bit, I hold a first dan in WTF. We were doing "non contact sparring", and if that wasn't bad enough, a red belt walked into my well placed roundhouse kick that was supposed to land in the air. After they were picked up off the floor, I was asked not to spar at that school anymore. True story.
                  Last edited by Crushing Step; 8/10/2009 7:26pm, .

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                    #69
                    I believe it. I myself was repeatedly warned about hitting "too hard", even when sparring people in their twenties and thirties. I was a 150-pound 15-16 year-old! And I was holding back! And, yet.... That's why I much prefer sparring with boxers, kick boxers, "hardcore" karateka, MMA guys, etc.

                    Comment


                      #70
                      Originally posted by Crushing Step View Post
                      I was working out for free at an ATA school for a little bit, I hold a first dan in WTF. We were doing "non contact sparring", and if that wasn't bad enough, a red belt walked into my well placed roundhouse kick that was supposed to land in the air. After they were picked up off the floor, I was asked not to spar at that school anymore. True story.
                      That's too funny! or not depending on who you are. :sad4:

                      Comment


                        #71
                        Welcome to Bullshido TT, now get yer butt over to newbietown and say hello!

                        Comment


                          #72

                          Comment


                            #73
                            Originally posted by Shu2jack View Post
                            The ATA is trying to improve the quality of its students. I think the last national testing had a fail rate of over 50%. But I bet 99% of all ATA schools have a pass rate of at least 95%. It is not translating over to the majority of the student base. It is hard to break the cycle. Students are used - sometimes expect - to test every 8 weeks. Testing fees encourage school owners to test students. Instructors are making students' set the goal of a black belt, so students usually want to test as often as possible. It is just not a great system for quality control.
                            Yes and no.

                            My last testing had a 100% pass rate. Why? Because I denied permission to test to nearly half the students. They were borderline and had been dogging it. They learned quickly that's not gonna fly and this testing cycle, they are motivated and busting their humps. It was a wakeup call to me as the instructor to not let myself get lax as well.

                            IMNSHO, a big, big issue with ATA is the confusion of the martial arts training with the business management style. A lot of schools implemented MASS, and that is nothing but User Car Salesmanship 101 as far as I am concerned. In order to make MASS work, they broke the Songahm style to make it fit.

                            I don't know what it's going to take to fix the organization, but I do know what it took to fix my school: throw MASS out, don't teach on block, emphasize the basics and never forget that our foundation is self-defense.
                            But that's just me.

                            Comment


                              #74
                              Originally posted by Balrog View Post
                              So....you don't think that the ability to perform under stress has anything to do with learning how to defend oneself?
                              I think the ability to perform a dance under stress has marginal effect on one's ability to defend oneself. Demonstrating a form in front of a group of judges is dancing. Failing someone for freezing during a dance cannot be justified by saying that it will help them learn to defend themselves. It can only be justified by saying they were unable to dance the way they were supposed to.

                              Originally posted by Balrog View Post
                              My point was that if they couldn't handle that low level of stress and perform a simple form, how the heck are they going to perform under major stress with somebody thumping on them? You seem to have totally missed that point.
                              No, I got the point. However, the point is bullshit.

                              There is little correlation between the two activities. If you want someone to learn how to handle the stress of a fight, you must subject them to the stress of a fight.

                              The Marines do not justify teaching someone to march in file as preparing them for the stress of combat. It's an organizational and indoctrinization tool. In order to prepare a Marine for the stress of combat, they are subjected to live fire drills.

                              If you believe there is a coorelation between the two, provide proof.

                              Comment


                                #75
                                That statement is incorrect. And once again, you have missed the point.

                                It is not about doing forms. It's about performance under pressure. Period. And I don't need to put someone into a fight situation to find out if they will choke if I see them choke in a low-stress situation. It's a given that they will choke in a high-stress situation.

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