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    #46
    Originally posted by atafamily
    Hi I found this thread interesting. We have recently enrolled my 6 year old son at an ata school. He was shy would not talk to anyone to now 6 months later showing signs of confidence.

    One thing I have noticed since siging him up I found out to really learn full forms, spar and learns more weapons we had to get him into the leadership program where now it seems like they are teaching him the whole gammit.

    I am 43 ex body builder and have been thinking about taking classes with my son. I am quite novice but from what I have seen at several tournaments you get out of the ATA exactly what you put into it. I know some think point sparring is weak, however it is the way that the ata has chosen to teach. Can I learn how to defend my self with ATA, I believe yes i can, will it be to the caliber of a MMA, not so much. but to a person that has no training to come at us on the street I feel the speed and training one puts into their art will help them.

    I started doing research once i started hearing the term mcdojo. The ata school where we go has a great instructor, his instructor is 6 Dan and I have seen him workout too.

    Now for me I think the ATA will serve its purpose and my son has a great intro to martial arts. If he choses to take it further and learn other styles as he get older then we support him.

    One thing I must add is that in the world of MA resoect is important and people slamming the ata I think is rude.
    You know you were making some good points until that last post. ATA dug their own hole years ago. They're about 1 level above the worst Mcdojo out their. Ironically one spawned the other.

    We speak frank here. It has nothing to do with rudeness. This thread was started by a ATA instructor. If you can't handle that then maybe you need to sit down and do some self-contemplation. ATA might've given your son the opportunity to gain a level of confidence lots of things will do that. I'm sincerely happy for you and him. If ATA schools look at this site and go out to improve themselves to go beyond this image they've portrayed then we've done our job.

    Are we equating 6th dan with great instructors? What have you actually compared that to? I'm a 6th degree does that make me great?

    I will slam the ATA because of what I've experienced and in the end that's all we can do. If you are happy where you are and you're getting out of it what you believe you need to that's fine. Just don't be naive about it.

    Comment


      #47
      ^^ Good post.

      I'd like to add the following regarding the ATA. I have two nephews, both with various degrees of autism and ADD and communication problems. All specialists were agreeing that they were bright but had problems externalizing, communicating their thoughts and on focusing.

      My sisters enrolled them on the ATA, and alas, compared them to how they were a year, two years ago, and it's like night and day. They talk without any problems now. Not only that, they are outgoing, physically active and becoming more and more agile. People who meet them now would not believe they were diagnosed with ADD or autism two years ago. So I'm grateful for that.

      However, there are things that I just cannot stomach. Every freaking month or so is a new belt, some new belt of a new color, with a grading fee and stuff. Of course, if all the 5-6 year olders are having the new belt, you have to fork the $$$ for your kid to have it as well. They are too emotionally fragile to let them stand up like a sore thumb.

      And then the equipment, first the foam helmet, then the cup, then the shin pads... for 5-6 year old kids who barely spar... all amounting for over $500, and the costs pile up and pile up and pile up.

      A lot of people enroll their kids because they have some sort of attention deficit disorder. That I've observed. And so far it works. But then there is this side that is just ugly, making expense after expense, capitalizing on the fact that parents must for the $$$ because they need their kids to be there.

      Plus last time I checked the school, they were teaching... uhm.. grappling. I saw kids being put into positions for drilling armlocks. Some of them spatic 8-10 year old kids. Some kid's elbow is going to get sore one of these days.

      To atafamily:

      There is good and there is bad with ATA. One just have to be pragmatic and use what's best from it while criticizing what's bad. You can't turn a blind eye on shit that's not right simply because it's providing a good service to someone's kids (even if they are our own).

      If you think it's rude to call things for what it is, I question your ability to be objective and fair. One cannot constantly shove questionable shit under the rug in the name of politeness or not being rude if you pretend to be a fair person. It is that type of questioning (when done fairly and objectively mind you) that leads people to improve on the things being questioned.
      Last edited by Teh El Macho; 12/27/2008 8:25am, .

      Comment


        #48
        Originally posted by O-Mega Tree O-Mega Tree
        You know you were making some good points until that last post. ATA dug their own hole years ago. They're about 1 level above the worst Mcdojo out their. Ironically one spawned the other.

        We speak frank here. It has nothing to do with rudeness. This thread was started by a ATA instructor. If you can't handle that then maybe you need to sit down and do some self-contemplation. ATA might've given your son the opportunity to gain a level of confidence lots of things will do that. I'm sincerely happy for you and him. If ATA schools look at this site and go out to improve themselves to go beyond this image they've portrayed then we've done our job.

        Are we equating 6th dan with great instructors? What have you actually compared that to? I'm a 6th degree does that make me great?

        I will slam the ATA because of what I've experienced and in the end that's all we can do. If you are happy where you are and you're getting out of it what you believe you need to that's fine. Just don't be naive about it.
        Thank you for your reply, it was late at night when I was writing that so rude may have been a bit harsh. I appreciate your feedback and the original post was well written. All I was saying is IMO I think the ATA has its niche, not everyone wants to get in the octagon. Are there better styles and more effective MA styles.. absolutley. Its obvious which styles have been proven effective in MMA.

        Regarding the ATA instructor thats a 6 Dan I did a lot of research on schools and instructors and this gentleman is highly respected by many aorund here.

        In my post at some point my son may decide to take his training further, this will be up to him. As for me and my wife the ATA, for now is adequate. Like I said I think this particular ATA school is a good one, some of the ones I read about I agree its very much a scam. I also feel that this school is giving us basic skills to feel confident in the event of anything happening on the street. Will we be prepared for everything? probably not but against the average person that has had no training at all we should be able to at least hold our own.

        I respect all forms of MA and the men and women that have the discpline to persue all that is right.

        Are there bad ATA schools? no doubt, are there good schools and instructors, sure.

        My reason for researching the ATA is we have committed time and money to learn this style. As a novice and not wanting to get taken advantage of I turned to the internet to research the organization. One thing I do agree strongly with is how the ATA can give 7 year olds Black Belts? I think one has to be physically able to effectively perform the moves against an adult and actually have it work.

        For now we will continue in our ATA school and as our skill level increases we will add another style to enhance what we have learned.

        Thank you for all the input I really appreciate it.

        With respect and regards -

        Comment


          #49
          Originally posted by atafamily
          Thank you for your reply, it was late at night when I was writing that so rude may have been a bit harsh. I appreciate your feedback and the original post was well written. All I was saying is IMO I think the ATA has its niche, not everyone wants to get in the octagon. Are there better styles and more effective MA styles.. absolutley. Its obvious which styles have been proven effective in MMA.

          Regarding the ATA instructor thats a 6 Dan I did a lot of research on schools and instructors and this gentleman is highly respected by many aorund here.

          In my post at some point my son may decide to take his training further, this will be up to him. As for me and my wife the ATA, for now is adequate. Like I said I think this particular ATA school is a good one, some of the ones I read about I agree its very much a scam. I also feel that this school is giving us basic skills to feel confident in the event of anything happening on the street. Will we be prepared for everything? probably not but against the average person that has had no training at all we should be able to at least hold our own.

          I respect all forms of MA and the men and women that have the discpline to persue all that is right.

          Are there bad ATA schools? no doubt, are there good schools and instructors, sure.

          My reason for researching the ATA is we have committed time and money to learn this style. As a novice and not wanting to get taken advantage of I turned to the internet to research the organization. One thing I do agree strongly with is how the ATA can give 7 year olds Black Belts? I think one has to be physically able to effectively perform the moves against an adult and actually have it work.

          For now we will continue in our ATA school and as our skill level increases we will add another style to enhance what we have learned.

          Thank you for all the input I really appreciate it.

          With respect and regards -
          And this is all we can ask. Keep a realistic view on it. I didn't think you were unreasonable in your statement, if I did you would've known. Sincerely take care my friend and be proud of your son (I know that goes without saying).

          Comment


            #50
            Originally posted by Teh El Macho
            However, there are things that I just cannot stomach. Every freaking month or so is a new belt, some new belt of a new color, with a grading fee and stuff. Of course, if all the 5-6 year olders are having the new belt, you have to fork the $$$ for your kid to have it as well. They are too emotionally fragile to let them stand up like a sore thumb.
            IMO, that is probably the biggest thing killing the ATA right now.

            The ATA wants their instructors parroting things like "be a black belt leader", or "great black belt kick", or some other "black belt" thing. Basically, the goal of the students becomes "earn a black belt" - which is a goal that is independent of what a student's initial goal for signing up may be. You do not need a black belt to lose weight, gain confidence, etc. So if you are not testing and promoting, you are not reaching your goal of being a black belt. Never mind if you have lost 10 pounds of belly fat.

            The ATA is trying to improve the quality of its students. I think the last national testing had a fail rate of over 50%. But I bet 99% of all ATA schools have a pass rate of at least 95%. It is not translating over to the majority of the student base. It is hard to break the cycle. Students are used - sometimes expect - to test every 8 weeks. Testing fees encourage school owners to test students. Instructors are making students' set the goal of a black belt, so students usually want to test as often as possible. It is just not a great system for quality control.

            But because it is the holiday season, and I am trying to be more positive, I will say that the ATA is coming out of it's shell and trying to expand it's curriculum. They are going to have a regular "Black belt only" tournament from which to try out new divisions before sending them to the general student population. Things like weapons sparring, continous sparring, punches to the head (down the road), etc. It will be interesting to see where the organization is headed.


            But, I will not be there. I left the ATA quite a few months back. Some of my family is still in the ATA, but I decided to move on.

            Comment


              #51
              This isn't YMAS, someone kick his douche post to trollshido or wherever it goes.

              Comment


                #52

                Comment


                  #53
                  My instructor failed 2 students last night. One couldn't break his Board the other girl forgot her form in the middle of testing. No MC Dojo here

                  Comment


                    #54
                    Originally posted by khf View Post
                    My instructor failed 2 students last night. One couldn't break his Board the other girl forgot her form in the middle of testing. No MC Dojo here
                    That doesn't mean that you don't go do a McDojo. Without reading too much into your post and not knowing the details, it almost sounds as if the two people weren't prepared to test. If so, why test them? Second, who's to say that the owner wasn't just looking for a quick way to make more testing money the second time around? Of course this is all a distant second to learning an effective martial art that actually teaches one how to fight realistically. Forms, one-step, and point sparring do not do this. Best of luck to you and your family.

                    Comment


                      #55
                      Originally posted by Whacker View Post
                      That doesn't mean that you don't go do a McDojo. Without reading too much into your post and not knowing the details, it almost sounds as if the two people weren't prepared to test. If so, why test them? Second, who's to say that the owner wasn't just looking for a quick way to make more testing money the second time around? Of course this is all a distant second to learning an effective martial art that actually teaches one how to fight realistically. Forms, one-step, and point sparring do not do this. Best of luck to you and your family.
                      Beat me to it.

                      Comment


                        #56
                        No the 2 kids were prepared but one kid had 3 tries top break the Board and couldn't and the other girl who is very talented just froze in the middle of her form which I have seen her do several times before.

                        I have seen plenty of kids and adults test and pass so I don't agree with your statement that our instructor was out to collect more money for the testing fees

                        Comment


                          #57
                          Originally posted by khf View Post
                          No the 2 kids were prepared but one kid had 3 tries top break the Board and couldn't and the other girl who is very talented just froze in the middle of her form which I have seen her do several times before.

                          I have seen plenty of kids and adults test and pass so I don't agree with your statement that our instructor was out to collect more money for the testing fees
                          So when they pass, it proves he's not out for more testing fees. When they fail, it proves that it's not a mcdojo. Er, what?

                          McDojo and Bullshido have nothing to do with the pass/fail rate. They have to do with business practices, training methods, rigor, fraud/truthfulness and combat efficacy & validity.

                          Comment


                            #58
                            Originally posted by khf View Post
                            No the 2 kids were prepared but one kid had 3 tries top break the Board and couldn't and the other girl who is very talented just froze in the middle of her form which I have seen her do several times before.

                            I have seen plenty of kids and adults test and pass so I don't agree with your statement that our instructor was out to collect more money for the testing fees
                            In addition to what 1point2 said, I'll add on that given what you've stated so far, your instructor is a pompous asshole. Failing someone because they freeze once in the middle of a form is a ridiculously stupid reason to fail someone. Forgetting a form consistently and repeatedly is a valid reason. A few flubs is not. I won't get into the board breaking, that's a joke anyway.

                            Your posts sound like someone who is trying very hard to convince himself that he is not going to a McDojo, followed closely by trying to convince us. If you really wish to get a good honest appraisal, why not post some videos of either you or even better some black belts doing some real sparring. By real sparring, I'm sure you understand by now this completely excludes still sparring, point sparring, etc. If your instructor is unwilling to allow you to film yourself or others, then that in of itself should be a telling point.

                            Sincerest best of luck to you and your family.

                            Comment


                              #59
                              I'm in favor of failing people who freeze up and can't complete a form. That's part of having standards, and of forcing students to recognize their failures.

                              If you're going to have forms in the curriculum, they'd better be whiz-bang good when the students do them. Having forty forms that the students promptly forget after the testing is lame.

                              Comment


                                #60
                                Originally posted by 1point2 View Post
                                I'm in favor of failing people who freeze up and can't complete a form. That's part of having standards, and of forcing students to recognize their failures.

                                If you're going to have forms in the curriculum, they'd better be whiz-bang good when the students do them. Having forty forms that the students promptly forget after the testing is lame.
                                I suspect we're saying the same thing slightly differently. I would concur, if a student tested and could not complete a form, then they would fail.

                                I think students should damn well be ready to test when they are asked to do so. This means both the instructor knows the student and where they stand in terms of skills, ability, and requirements for their grade. The student should also be very much ready themselves, mentally and physically. Students should NEVER be in charge of their own progression, in any shape or form. This is where McDojos fail, because they promote people on regular bases, and/or the instructors do not know or care to keep track of each individual student's progress. Having 2938439 forms is indeed retarded and pointless. Having maybe upwards of 10 or so distinct forms that teach specific concepts is fine. A white belt learning their first form is going to be sloppy and uncoordinated a best. They should be able to demonstrate growth and improvement at each phase of testing. Everyone makes mistakes too. My old school's 1BB tests were 8 hours long and covered every single bit of material. Some mistakes can and will be made.

                                In the end it's all subjective and personal opinion anyway!

                                Comment

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