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Ninjers claim to have proof Takamatsu's teacher existed!

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    Ninjers claim to have proof Takamatsu's teacher existed!

    http://www.ninjutsuforum.com/showthr...=7546#post7546

    HI All

    I was going to post on some other forums but thought i would post here first to see what reaction comes of this info.

    For those of you interested or with some knowledge of history and have been involved in other forums you will know that there has been for the past years the constant question of did Toda Shinryuken really exist.

    One of the facts always used to back up the conspirousy theorists was the fact there was no know grave.

    Ha..............

    that was until now.

    Yesterday (14th October) during a conversation with kacem he informed me that not only does there exist at least one makimono hand written with the signature of Toda in hatsumi senseis possession but he personally has seen with his own eyes the grave that bears the name of Toda.

    He literally came across it by accident.

    He told me what city but not the temple it is located.

    I hope this brings some welcomed long awaited news for some of the senior members

    Is it just me, or does this proof seem kinda lame?

    First of all, what proof is there that this grave really was that of Takamatsu's ninja teacher, Toda? It's not like Toda is a very rare name in Japan is it?

    Secondly, how hard would it be to simply write a signature that said "Toda" on a document?

    Maybe the ninjers are right and Takamatsu din't make up the Togakure Ryu. But we'll need a bit more proof than this.
    Last edited by shmuel; 11/06/2007 1:34pm, .

    #2
    They can have all the proof in the world. It still doesn't make their art useful.

    Comment


      #3
      So are you saying that Takamatsu teacher was not Toda? Why do we think we can uncover the secrets of Ninjutsu today that have been kept for hundreds of years? And does the fact that we can nott prove it mean it can not be true? I any situation I enjoy reading all the postings. They are very entertaining.

      Comment


        #4
        Screw their history, I'd rather see prove of their fighting ability.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by shmuel
          http://www.ninjutsuforum.com/showthr...=7546#post7546




          Is it just me, or does this proof seem kinda lame?

          First of all, what proof is there that this grave really was that of Takamatsu's ninja teacher, Toda? It's not like Toda is a very rare name in Japan is it?

          Secondly, how hard would it be to simply write a signature that said "Toda" on a document?

          Maybe the ninjers are right and Takamatsu din't make up the Togakure Ryu. But we'll need a bit more proof than this.
          They have to also establish that this person lived in the location and during the time period that he is claimed to in order to provide any sort of substantial proof that they are the same person.

          Comment


            #6
            Kacem Zoughari mentioned something similar in a French interview translated into English at

            http://www.joergjungkunz.de/dojo/interview.pdf

            Comment


              #7
              99% of Bujinkan "proof" is

              "Hatsumi has it but won't release it; due to ______________"

              In reality Hatsumi has taken all his "proof" to the Ko-ryu council 3 TIMES and they rejected it 3 TIMES.

              Comment


                #8
                So... in realty... you're saying that Hatsumi Sensi is not of the linage that he says he is? Wouldn't other masters of ninjutsu have challenged his claim and discredited him by now?

                Comment


                  #9
                  What other masters?

                  Oh, you mean Ashida.....

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Batman Shinobi
                    So are you saying that Takamatsu teacher was not Toda? Why do we think we can uncover the secrets of Ninjutsu today that have been kept for hundreds of years? And does the fact that we can nott prove it mean it can not be true? I any situation I enjoy reading all the postings. They are very entertaining.

                    I am a direct descendant of King Arthur and the fact that I can't prove it doesn't mean it's not true. Do you see the problem with that line of thinking now, or are you just another Bujinkan zombie?
                    Last edited by rw4th; 11/07/2007 1:25pm, .

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Batman Shinobi
                      So... in realty... you're saying that Hatsumi Sensi is not of the linage that he says he is? Wouldn't other masters of ninjutsu have challenged his claim and discredited him by now?
                      We secretly work for the rival ninja clans and our mission is to discredit this shit on the internet ... shhhhhh, don't tell anybody.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        nice picture rw4th... I've noticed that a lot of folks really hate the ninja and particularly Bujinkan ninja.... what's up with the hate.... did one of them rock your world....?

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Actually we have enough ex-buj here to stock a clan. They generally arrive self hating :)

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Batman Shinobi
                            nice picture rw4th... I've noticed that a lot of folks really hate the ninja and particularly Bujinkan ninja.... what's up with the hate.... did one of them rock your world....?
                            short answer: Because it's shit

                            Long answer: Because it is LARPing shit

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Really shinobi,the claim made by the op isn't proof of anything. At best its an unfounded internet rumor by a brainwashed bujinkan. His source,apart from being bullshit, is too far removed from being a primary one. Also the source is not being very forthcoming with information. Why only give the city the grave is located in but not the temple?

                              For this claim to have any validity, we would need exact location of the grave and the ability to excavate it in order to gather evidence about the identity of the man in the tomb. Also some primary evidence (diary, records, etc) would help further the claim.

                              Claims based on nothing but some guy told me are just hot air and wasted time, but I'm sure you know that.

                              Comment

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