toshindo

[ZENLO]

I'm new here and I'v searched around to look for a thread that discredit toshindo. I've seen some members mention very breif information about this style but no true evidence of anything just from what we all see on my space and youtube. Can someone guide me to the appropriate thread so I won't make a mistake on my search for a good martail art.

[Rock Ape]

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en...e+Search&meta=



You're welcome

[Lone Wind]

Hello ZENLO, ive heard Toshindo is very watered down, from what ive heard your better off learning martial arts from a 9 year old. hope that helped a tiny bit

-Lone Wind

[Fitz]

Check youtube, there are a ton of To-shin Do videos posted there currently.

If you're interested in what the general teaching style is like check out

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ij5yEVkIy0

If that is the kind of thing you're interested in, and you have a local group, consider checking them out. If you are thinking about doing their DVD program only, consider finding an alternative gym or school instead.

[plasma]

Hello ZENLO, ive heard Toshindo is very watered down, from what ive heard your better off learning martial arts from a 9 year old. hope that helped a tiny bit

-Lone Wind

Watered down? Thats funny coming from a Bujinkan.


Anyway for the original poster. Toshindo is Hatsumi's Taijutsu mixed with Okinawan Karate.

[Lone Wind]

Watered down? Thats funny coming from a Bujinkan.


Anyway for the original poster. Toshindo is Hatsumi's Taijutsu mixed with Okinawan Karate.

out of curiousity, do you know where the name "Toshindo" came from or what it means?

[eyebeams]

Watered down? Thats funny coming from a Bujinkan.


Anyway for the original poster. Toshindo is Hatsumi's Taijutsu mixed with Okinawan Karate.

What karate and how so? Never heard this before.

[plasma]

out of curiousity, do you know where the name "Toshindo" came from or what it means?

Toshindo is a "pun" on the nin kanji. To = blade and shin = heart where the nin kanji is two kanji "blade" and "heart"


i am not defending toshindo, but the fact a bujinkan called something watered down is very funny. Bujinkan is a watered down as JMA gets.

[Fitz]

Anyway for the original poster. Toshindo is Hatsumi's Taijutsu mixed with Okinawan Karate.

Hayes never claimed to nor expressed interest in mixing Okinawan Karate into his material.

Got any proof to back up that claim?

[Lone Wind]

Toshindo is a "pun" on the nin kanji. To = blade and shin = heart where the nin kanji is two kanji "blade" and "heart"


i am not defending toshindo, but the fact a bujinkan called something watered down is very funny. Bujinkan is a watered down as JMA gets.

my school sometimes has some good sparring, but if you want to call it watered down your entitled to your own opinion. But besides that i spar with my friends like nuts outside of class all the time. But really i wasnt calling it watered down, i just heard it was watered down so i took their word for it.

[ZENLO]

From what I understand is that he took out espionage, finding hurbs to create medicine and home made gunpowder out of the trainning because face it who really needs that?

I've seen alot of clips from traditional ninjitsu/bujinken/tuijitsy clips and they seem very similar to an untrained person like myself.

I 've hered of in another forum that there is karate in it too but I don't see that either.

I get the feeling that bullshido makes claims on what is bullshit without any evidence what soever is this the kind of forum that only like martial arts the they see on UFC becuase from what I have read so far every martial arts such and is bullshit unless its MMA.

I did learn alot about what to look at what to stay away with lengthy contracts, and I've seen some really funny stuff to.

[halfcut]

That clip didn't look to bad really. He is explaining everything pretty throughly and the defenses are to semi-realistic attacks. If they spar regularly it would probably be worth checking out.

[WorldWarCheese]

The opening of that clip made me want to throw up... and I almost did. It takes a real deleusional person to have an opening comprised of ninjer moves as they put on an over glitter-golden samurai costume and pair of eBay swords.

In the meaty section of the video I find: Suprising un-use of the karate lunge-punch as the basis of attack, people in some form of TKD + Random extra gear that may hint at sparring (What type, it doesn't show) and over exagerrated boxing hooks and crosses.

The compliancy isn't really an issue since it is supposed to be some sort of into or technique guide like that, but the way the people really didn't know how to throw punches without somehow getting wildly off-balanced all by themselves sort of struck me as funny (And I don't even do a striking art).

This is just an analysis of the video itself and not the art, but from what I can tell so far: You'd be better off taking Judo.

[Fitz]

The opening of that clip made me want to throw up... and I almost did. It takes a real deleusional person to have an opening comprised of ninjer moves as they put on an over glitter-golden samurai costume and pair of eBay swords.

Hayes always had a flare for drama (his educational training was in Acting) and it often gets the better of him. It seems to have gotten worse since he got involved in creating To-Shin Do as a franchise martial arts system though he was always a bit of a cheese-ball.

In the meaty section of the video I find: Suprising un-use of the karate lunge-punch as the basis of attack, people in some form of TKD + Random extra gear that may hint at sparring (What type, it doesn't show) and over exagerrated boxing hooks and crosses.

To-Shin Do isn't terrible stuff, technically. My biggest issue with it is that it rests on a lot of 80s style Ninja imagery and I'm a bit torqued by Hayes' attempt at selling it as a path to Enlightenment, whatever that term my ultimately mean. And the role playing in practice leaves me less then impressed. Here's an example of what I mean

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoQMQsq6AG0

The compliancy isn't really an issue since it is supposed to be some sort of into or technique guide like that, but the way the people really didn't know how to throw punches without somehow getting wildly off-balanced all by themselves sort of struck me as funny (And I don't even do a striking art).

The material in that clip is from their second level of training or for folks who have been training their basics for a few months. I figure lots of slow movements and set ups to get the methods right is to be expected, at least on the basic techniques demonstrations.

This is just an analysis of the video itself and not the art, but from what I can tell so far: You'd be better off taking Judo.

I'm not sold on To-Shin Do as a first art or even as a primary art for people to train in.

[WorldWarCheese]

Hayes always had a flare for drama (his educational training was in Acting) and it often gets the better of him. It seems to have gotten worse since he got involved in creating To-Shin Do as a franchise martial arts system though he was always a bit of a cheese-ball.

Oi! Cheese-balls are wonderful, delicious and come in handy for large parties or groups. I don't think Haye's inteo fits any of those categories.

And I can definitely see the drama influence in him. I have a friend who went to Emmerson (Acting school) and I must say, from what it sounds like over there his video might be very popular.

To-Shin Do isn't terrible stuff, technically. My biggest issue with it is that it rests on a lot of 80s style Ninja imagery and I'm a bit torqued by Hayes' attempt at selling it as a path to Enlightenment, whatever that term my ultimately mean. And the role playing in practice leaves me less then impressed. Here's an example of what I mean

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoQMQsq6AG0

...
Wow.
I remember doing things like this in Krotty, except even we didn't take it either that far or seriously (Though there was a competition for it in t3h-ub3r-T0urnament our school frequented).

The thing about RP is the blurring the line between acting/play-acting and real life and it can get people in trouble. It's usually made by people who never experienced a lot of actal life and are compensating a lack of first hand knowledge with general stereotypes and assumptions in which they, invariably, are always calm/cool/collected when IRL they rarely are in a social environment. (At least, this has been my experience and understanding)

The material in that clip is from their second level of training or for folks who have been training their basics for a few months. I figure lots of slow movements and set ups to get the methods right is to be expected, at least on the basic techniques demonstrations.

I'm fine with slow and compliancy for basic level learning techniques, especially on camera, the thing about it was even moving as slowly as they did, if they didn't even get blocked (but dodged instead) the attacker would often lurch, exageratting the miss and practically throwing themselves without being touched. It was just complaince for technique display, it was just bad technique. (Made them look like they couldn't throw a punch. Not saying that I could, but it just looked very poor)

I'm not sold on To-Shin Do as a first art or even as a primary art for people to train in.

I'll have to look into it a lot more on my own (Unless there's already a dedicated thread in MBAS, for which I will have to search) but at the moment I wouldn't even bother with it at all.