This is why ChiSao sucks.

[Tom Kagan]

A friend of mine who is a JKD practitioner, Sean "Big Sean" Madigan, while in one of his more ornery moods, once said to me that a lot of the JKD world is about taking ideas, concepts, and drills from other styles, then proceeding to fuck it up beyond all recognition.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjhQ-0-uuFw


The above video says nothing whatsoever as to the two persons' martial abilities and whether they can express such martial skill and actually fight. However, there is so much wrong with the above video as an expression of ChiSao I can't get over the WTF factor to dissect it. If they think they are doing ChiSao, I say THEY CLEARLY ARE NOT. If this is their ChiSao, their use of the drill is an empty shell of a training method.

[ChickenBeakFist]

Are these two guys from a JKD school? It's interesting you bring that up because the whole MO of the Bruce Lee Foundation recently started up by Linda and Shannon Lee is to try to combat the idea that JKD just means throwing every style in a blender and hoping for the best. There's a pretty interesting book on the subject called "The Straight Lead" written by Teri Tom of the foundation. What was most enlightening about it is that Lee, who is so closely associated with Chinese kung fu in most people's minds, got much of his inspiration from western boxing and fencing. But I digress...

Tom would you mind posting a video of what you believe to be effective chi siao? I don't mean that as a challenge, but rather I'm just getting my feet wet with Wing Chun and cannot yet tell the difference between the good and the bad. Would you consider "good" chi siao to be simply a matter of sparring? Or is there a better way of "drilling" the technique that is displayed here?

[kwoww]

Well, as a contrast, other Chi Sao I've seen was what can only bee described as a dynamic, flowing hand dance.

This just looks fucking weird.

But I know nothing about teh chun so who am I to judge?

[Lendo]

Calling that crap is an insult to crap. What's with the larger guy's shaking hands?

[Tonuzaba]

...there is so much wrong with the above video as an expression of ChiSao I can't get over the WTF factor to dissect it. If they think they are doing ChiSao, I say THEY CLEARLY ARE NOT. If this is their ChiSao, their use of the drill is an empty shell of a training method.

Thank you, Tom.

For ruining my evening.

Where's the nearest social service to help that abused kid?

...I'm just getting my feet wet with Wing Chun and cannot yet tell the difference between the good and the bad. Would you consider "good" chi siao to be simply a matter of sparring? Or is there a better way of "drilling" the technique that is displayed here?

The thing in the video is to chi sau as sitting in your bathtub is compared to olympic swimming. Both have you and the water. Period.

[M1K3]

The thing in the video is to chi sau as sitting in your bathtub is compared to olympic swimming. Both have you and the water. Period.

Wow, Tonuzaba, that was deep.

[Boyd]

The above video says nothing whatsoever as to the two persons' martial abilities and whether they can express such martial skill and actually fight.

If pretending to beat up a ten year old is a serious part of your training regime, I'd say it's safe to make some assumptions.

On the plus side, it looks like the guy on the left is Eric Freeman, and that can only mean one thing...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7gIpuIVE3k

[Jack Rusher]

Wait! There's more!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5kDIiunSrc

[cyrijl]

Why slap when you can punch? That is something I don't understand. So much energy is wasted playing patty cakes.

[PizDoff]

Tom, that was criminally bad. Poor form, poor power generation. I've also never seen the shaking hands thing, must be the release of too much power.

[SpringHeeledJack]

youtube video that has embedding disabled

That guy needs to learn how to hold pads.

[sheol1980]

I want to become a martial arts instructor so that I can legally beat up kids too.

[Guizzy]

Wow, that video was puke worthy.

It's not Chi Sao there's no touching or listening or trapping hands. The Chi Sao "cycle" is simply used as a setup for the smaller kid to heroically drop his hands to let the bigger kid imitate bad speedbag work just in front of his head.

I can't blame anyone for thinking Wing Chun or JKD sucks after seeing this. While it would be wrong, it's just as hard to make a nuanced and true statement on either one after seeing this as it was making a nuanced and true statement about the german people in general during WW2. It's that bad.

[kwoww]

Once again, does someone wanna post some good Chi Sao as a contrast?

[Dr._Tzun_Tzu]

The elbows out cartwheeling hands is always a giveaway of bad wing chun. The shaking hands reminds me of people takling the "vibrations" power concept in the wrong direction, and it apears they are doing more of a Baqua Circle walked then WT or any _ing _un footwork. very bad,....

Nice music though.

Why slap when you can punch? That is something I don't understand. So much energy is wasted playing patty cakes.

Actually, A palm strike is not a slap, and having removed all the tiny bones of the hand, a heel palm theoritically has the potential for a more solid impact.

Once again, does someone wanna post some good Chi Sao as a contrast?

this is better, and is closer to what chi sau, without footwork, should be. Notice the smaller guy is better in this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1S-jWt-soCE



while Sifu Boztepe is playing around, he is also putting various pressures on his student to test his limits, using chi sau in a freestyle format. and he seems to make everyone look this bad....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBE3EB59o9w