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    Another gem from Tim Cartmell:

    In addition to only practicing skills you can use at or near full force when sparring, participating in intense combat sports competition is the best way to acquire realistic fighting skills, with mindset and the experience of actually being hit, thrown, joint locked etc. providing the most valuable feedback to one's personal level of skill save an actual life or death fight in the street. Combat sports competition, although necessarily restricted by some rules for safety purposes, will elicit exactly the same chemical cascade as a real confrontation in the street, providing an opportunity to see how you really react and perform under intense stress.

    Students should start sparring early, spar with resistance every training session, and, if possible, fight against other trained combat athletes under the intensity of full-contact competition.

    People who claim they are developing realistic fighting skills, and yet deny the need to engage in regular contact sparring against fully resisting opponents are, in my opinion, training in the confines of a delusion, or are simply not brave enough to be real martial artists.
    Slightly later in the same thread, in answer to the question of whether training hard turns men to bloodhungry beasts:

    I believe the discipline of training naturally instils a sense of responsibility. I've trained a lot of men who became very good fighters, and the time, effort, sacrifice and self discipline required caused none of them to become more animal-like. Traditions and cultural trappings are empty and will do nothing to temper a student's personality and level of compassion without facing the hard work and sometimes fear of intense training.
    Last edited by Jack Rusher; 3/20/2009 11:28am, . Reason: Adding more awesomeness.


      We need more CMAers that speak out like this IMO.


        Ayron Howey is an IMA practitioner under Shouyu Liang talking about sanshou as a part of martial training:

        I like to think of Sanshou as freestyle application of all martial arts. You take what you have learned, be it Tai Chi, competition Wushu, Hsing Yi, Chin Na, etc., and apply it to a combat situation. No matter why you are learning what you are learning, you should know how to actually use what you have been taught, otherwise you have not learned the full lesson.

        Sanshou is but one component of martial arts, a necessary piece of the learning puzzle. For me, Sanshou is a large and important piece. It is currently my focus, as a serious competitor, and I must fight while I am still young and strong. Regardless of the martial arts you practice, I urge everyone to share this ideal while training, so you can recover better and push beyond your physical limits. My age, health, and skill are all factors that I share in common with other fighters, though I believe I have only two more years of competition left. I do not want any permanent injuries that may affect my learning of martial arts, yet I do not want my growth to be stagnant either. And for me to grow personally, I must take my training to the next level and compete against those at my level.
        ... he became the Canadian national sanshou champion in his weight class, then crosstrained in sub-grappling before winning his first pro MMA fight in 2007. There are some nice training videos at his website.


          I'm in heaven....thanks all for this stuff. ^^


            YouTube - David Ross of NY San Da

            Great piece from NY San Da's David Ross. He talks about "it's not what you train, it's how you train," cross-training, the guest instructors he has, San Da for MMA, etc. I like how he's very simple and down-to-earth about it.

            "It was always a fighting gym."

            I also have a soft spot for "inclusive" training, which he talks about at the end. Apparently he trains both fighters and grandmothers, as he puts it.


              Article: 1929 Hangzhou Leitai Tournament

              I saw this article posted on the RPC Northern Shaolin Historical Society history forum. It's very interesting and draws on some chinese sources we probably don't get to see every day.


              I particularly enjoyed this quote:


                But I like breaking bricks....


                  My fave quote from that article:

                  The atmosphere during tournament was very tense, but at the end of the first day, more than half of the entrants remained in the competition. This was because of a flaw in the rules: in the event of a draw, the original rules stipulated that both contestants could progress to the next round. At the end of the first day, the judge’s committee changed the rules so that in the event of a draw, both contestants would be out. After that, the competitors didn’t hold back and many people were hurt, mostly with head injuries.


                    Really interesting! Who knew that there was an aliveness v. the deadly palm strike debate in 1920s China.

                    I guess I really should be sparring. Although it does say that no one could withstand Liu Gaosheng's deadly palm strike, so maybe we should all be sparring as well as practicing hitting something hard over and over again.

                    Wait, doesn't western boxing do that?


                      That was an awesome article. I loved a lot of different sections.

                      Interesting how they kept tweaking the rules for passivity, injuries, rest, and draws.

                      I liked all the quotes above, plus:

                      One may win by brute force; but one may equally win by fighting ‘cunningly’ (qiao da). In the 7th round, Ma met his kungfu brother Hu Fengshan [both were students of Sun Lutang]. Because the two were kungfu brothers, they had often practiced together and were familiar with each other’s fighting style. Hu eventually won by trapping Ma’s foot and punching him in the face. Perhaps such a tactic is not what us enthusiasts imagine when we think of kungfu. As Zhang Hongjun points out ,this illustrates the variability of real combat: hitting hard & blocking hard can injure your opponent so he cannot go on, whilst fighting ‘cunningly’ can also win. Kungfu fans might think that this kind of ‘cunning’ tactic is underhanded or not very staisfying, but this is what real challenge fights are like.


                        Wow, great article. It was interesting to see xingyi so often in the top competitors. I was also kinda surprised to not see any from choy li fut or hung gar.


                          Also, being on a freshly built concrete platform, it is not at all surprising that shuai jiao players did well.


                            Originally posted by CodosDePiedra View Post
                            Wow, great article. It was interesting to see xingyi so often in the top competitors. I was also kinda surprised to not see any from choy li fut or hung gar.

                            I don't think any from those groups even came through.



                              Originally posted by CodosDePiedra
                              It was interesting to see xingyi so often in the top competitors.
                              Xingyi was traditionally considered one of the more practical forms of Chinese boxing. As further evidence: the guy who came in second on this leitai, Zhu Guolu (xingyi and boxing), also won the 1928 Nanjing tournament.

                              Favorite quote:

                              The fighter they point out as having been the youngest of the finalists, Zhao Daoxin, studied under Zhang Zhao-Dong (xingyi + bagua/shuaijiao), Wu Yi Hui (founder liuhebafa), and Wang Xiangzhai (founder of yiquan). He gave some great interviews about martial arts as a grumpy old san da instructor in his 80s:

                              In fact, in real fighting there are no styles.

                              [ ... ]

                              There is a lot of shortcomings and taboos. [ ... ] If you tell some person doing baguazhang, that his movements resemble taijiquan, he will hardly accept such opinion. If you tell some xingyiquan practitioner that you notice some similarities to western boxing he will feel bad about it. But actually the differences between styles are more in ritual gestures than in the way of fighting. But those gestures are useful only for demonstration or meeting, in fight they are useless and stupid.

                              [ ... ]

                              Combat efficiency is decided by way of training. And methods of traditional training have low efficiency. You need a lot of time, and even after long time you are not sure if you will be able to use your skills in fighting.
                              ... an echo of one of my laments regarding theory-based taiji versus how the guys with real gongfu train:

                              if you see what those taijiquan masters who can demonstrate issuing power are practicing in secret, you will understand what I'm talking about.
                              ... and speaking for all of Bullshido:

                              if you want to achieve high level in martial art, you must make it. From the beginning you should train like you will fight.
                              More here.


                                Jack, you always bring us the best violence.



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