Roger Conant's article on Togakure Ryu History

[collier]

Found this on MAP
http://www.martialartsplanet.com/for....php?p=1232631


An excellent article and puts the final nail into the coffin of the ninjers' argument.This is the information Hatsumi and the senior ninjers don't want you to know!

[oni]

wow. interesting read...

[spooky]

Can I ask who is Roger Conant?
What's his back ground and what research did he do?

[kwoww]

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD NEXT TIME YOU DO THAT USE PARAGRAPHS KTHX.

[Lujke]

That's interesting stuff, and a good read. Thanks for posting.

[DuckofDeath]

Does To*****ugo = Toshitsugo?

[Gary001]

Wow - I've been with the Bujinkan for about 4 years, I don't really mind whats written on here becasue I'm confident the training I do is practical and exceptional. I am very happy with the training and I believe it is 'real'.

I've been to Japan and I've trained with Soke Hatsumi.

As a non member you have researched an amazing amount of material here. I have read a lot of material but you have really done your homework here.

What an interest people have in our art!

[plasma]

But do you believe you are training in Ninjutsu and how much people would your school lose if Bujinkan dropped the ninjer thing?

[liekuei]

Ninjustsu is simply surviving well in any situation and exerting a control over important aspects in one's life.
Bujinkan is very limited and teaches you less strategy than you could probably learn playing checkers. As a "fighting style" im sure one who is proficient with it can hold his own.
But i can't bring my-self to believe the the Bujinkan system can shape a person into a honed flexibly strategical killing machine similar to the ninjas of old

[plasma]

What ryu of ninjutsu do you do?

[spooky]

*Opens a beer puts feet up*

[liekuei]

unfortunately most of what i have in my backround of ninjutsu anyway is bujinkan and what i have learned from from personal experience in application. and not to brag or star trouble but there bujikan's "black belts" aren't that difficult to embarass in combat

i have trained with martial artist from many different styles and learned that the only way to defeat a 6'5" 230lbs MMA ring fighter when your 5'7" 145lbs is experience and strategy which unfortunately is almost the only thing bujinkan has to offer

[plasma]

unfortunately most of what i have in my backround of ninjutsu anyway is bujinkan and what i have learned from from personal experience in application. and not to brag or star trouble but there bujikan's "black belts" aren't that difficult to embarass in combat

No, it isn't. I know from expirence.

i have trained with martial artist from many different styles and learned that the only way to defeat a 6'5" 230lbs MMA ring fighter when your 5'7" 145lbs is experience and strategy which unfortunately is almost the only thing bujinkan has to offer

However, you list your primary style as "Ninjutsu" which you got from training in the Bujinkan. However, in your first post you claim Bujinkan "Ninjutsu" more or less "sucks" (paraphrasing) and implied that you know what the "real" stuff is, otherwise you wouldn't how bad your Bujinkan training is.

In that case, what other training have you had? How long were you in the Bujinkan?

Spooky I want a beer!

[plasma]

Please describe your "strategy" for defeating a trained MMA fighters that out weighs you by 100 pounds.

[liekuei]

he is actually the first fighter i ever lost to (this was about 3.5 years ago) and convinced me that although i could get postions that would seem to be in my favor, my techniques lacked power and weren't that hard to see coming.
after practicing other martial arts i had learned that there are many techniques that naturally lend power to you without using alot of energy like Bujinkan proposes
now all i had to do was combine that with strategy( distacing, postioning, deception) and all the practice that gives you that blank combat mind and it was actually an semi-easy vitory ( no holds barred of course)