Exploring the Ninja

[Marl]

Hi, could you correct your second quote, please? I didn't say that, I think it was FilipinoNinja.

I'd also appreciate it if you altered the first quote too, but it's fine if you don't. That's not what I was trying to say with my post. What I was saying is that I was surprised that even though I'd never trained for that sort of fight, I could apply the basic ideas behind moving and striking from Gyokko and Koto, and held my own.

I certainly don't think I'm awesome. I gave up that fight - my cardio wasn't nearly good enough, and by the third round I was too tired to keep going. Showed me that I need to work harder. =)

I'm confused, too. Should I *not* try and find other practitioners of martial arts and try and fight them? Best way to test myself, surely? Why mock that by distorting my quote?

[BloodMagus]

My point is this, if you wish to assess your abilities, you need a decent control subject.

I could go down to an Aikido Dojo I know of, toss & snap their students like sticks (i suspect one day I will, for fun). Yet I know for a fact that their instructor can annilihate me in my ground game (we've rolled once, I lasted about 5minutes, although I don't know any bjj but he does, looking forward to another roll). Can I make an assessment on my abilities through that? Hell no.

My suggestion as before is, find a local kickboxer (MT?), and a local judoka/BJJ'er. This is far better, then fighting another six different martial artists. Why?
You have covered two main bases of fighting, standup/striking & ground/grapple, with arguably the best representives of those fields. These arts have somewhat better quality control, and are tested in competition. You're avoiding the LARPers.
For real shits and giggles, go against an MMA and see what happens.

More importantly, show people, don't tell them. Video it. Embarassing as it may be, you'll get more feedback & it will be more helpful/precise.

It might not be a direct quote of what you said, but thats pretty much how it comes off.
And you've just been outdone by a CMA dude, and you're even remotely considering a BJJ fighter? You're either stupid, or very stupid.

Don't work harder, work smarter. If you'd spent two & a half years doing BJJ, judo, kickboxing or muay thai; you've probably eaten that guy for lunch.

Better yet, sit down and watch the UFC. That way you don't have spend all this time fighting other people to know what you're eventually going to realise, ninjutsu isn't all that its cracked up to be.

[FilipinoNinja]

bloodmagus, in reply to you saying grappling is the best, it isnt, grappling cannot take on multiple opponents at once ive heard many stories about it, ninjitsu practitioners dont compete because our art isnt for competition, its for survival and real fight situations

[Neildo]

Man, you gotta take up some Kali/Arnis or some Silat or something. it's in your heritage and it actually works, unlike ninjitsu which is neither really.

[cyrijl]

Are any of you ninjers over 15 years old. All i see is the same arguments

1-we too deadly to spar
2-we have the real ninjering
3-ufc is not real fighting (but we are)

[FilipinoNinja]

well after im done with bujinkan im gunna learn some arnis or something cause im going to the philippines this summer so maybe i can fnd something there, there arent any places like that around here though.

Bujinkan does work, some people are just too idiodic and prideful to see it for what it really is, anyways cvrijl i dont really have to prove to you that it works. Ninjitsu is smart, fighting is from what ive heard 90% mental and we take advantage of that, there are problems with all martial arts, even yours.

[BloodMagus]

bloodmagus, in reply to you saying grappling is the best, it isnt, grappling cannot take on multiple opponents at once ive heard many stories about it, ninjitsu practitioners dont compete because our art isnt for competition, its for survival and real fight situations

Go back up to my post, and REREAD the paragraphs starting at
[sarcasm]Its not because they're undeniably the best [/sarcasm], its simply for the fact these arts have been tested in competition over the years, and hence we can see what is effective and what is not.

As for a the multiple opponents crap, firstly I hardly see bujinkan dealing with it any better, and secondly you can still take on multiple opponents. I've deployed grappling at work in a couple of situations, generally taking a meat shield with a RNC and backing up towards a wall. If I had the room and training, I suspect I could throw an opponent into another.
How about I start sharing MY STORIES about Bujinkan & Ninjutsu?
Stop talking about shit you clearly don't know

Have you ever been in a real fight? Has your instructor been in one?
At least Marl took some basic initiative to try a round in the ring. EVen if it was against a larper.

Bujinkan does work, some people are just too idiodic and prideful to see it for what it really is, anyways cvrijl i dont really have to prove to you that it works. Ninjitsu is smart, fighting is from what ive heard 90% mental and we take advantage of that, there are problems with all martial arts, even yours

Please inform me 'what it really is', as you seem to be privy to some secret that all us, even the ex-booj, seem to be missing.

You don't have to prove it works. But how do you know if you've never proved it?
Remember how I explained that when nerds start talking shit, other martial artists get cocky. Guess what, I'm getting cocky. Intelligence is great for training, but it plays a very minor role in a real fight. I think Marl has pretty much shown that after getting puffed out. He'd been training 2.5 years, how long have you?

[ah_dut]

Bujinkan does work, some people are just too idiodic and prideful to see it for what it really is, anyways cvrijl i dont really have to prove to you that it works. Ninjitsu is smart, fighting is from what ive heard 90% mental and we take advantage of that, there are problems with all martial arts, even yours.

Sorry if I sound like I'm jumping on a bandwagon...but bujinkan doesn't work if it ain't trained live. And 99% of it isn't. I train bujinkan currently and it's as dead as a doorknob (I also happen to train BJJ in the same class: look up my ninjerism thread in guantanamo bay if you want more info).

There is no sparring and so much of it works off the amazing lunge punch...

[Virus]

well after im done with bujinkan im gunna learn some arnis or something cause im going to the philippines this summer so maybe i can fnd something there, there arent any places like that around here though.

Bujinkan does work, some people are just too idiodic and prideful to see it for what it really is, anyways cvrijl i dont really have to prove to you that it works. Ninjitsu is smart, fighting is from what ive heard 90% mental and we take advantage of that, there are problems with all martial arts, even yours.

Ninjer please! If someone thinks the bujinkan doesn't work very well you assume they must be an idiot? Ninijitsu (aka bujinkan) isn't as smart as you think it is. The bujinkan, on the whole has never been systematically alive and and it shows. Look at some UFC, that's what good fighting at the three ranges looks like not standing in ichimonji and catching lunge punches out of the air.

[cyrijl]

I did ninjering for about a month...it was just too silly.

Dead patterns practiced pretty slowly.
Out of shape students (not on their way to being in shape). Alot of complicated 'moves'.

In order to learn how to fight you only need about 4 punches, 3 kicks, 2 throws and a choke. That'll get you close enough. Why would you need a 'smart' 'system'. Most fights don't last long enough for you to be smart.

Funny thing is, a colleague told me he got in a street fight this past weekend. He has no training. Guess what, the fight ended up on the ground. Some guy bumped into him and shoved him for no reason, my friend started throwing haymakers (breaking his hand in the process), they clinched (fell back into each other) and then they fell down and fought on the ground (flailed and punched)...this is basically what hedge did to the retard* but hedge did it with technique....


*retard is a bullshido copyrighted word

[PSanderson]

My first impression of Bujinkan was that it looked really contrived, even from an aikido perspective (I wonder what that says about BTJ/Aikido?) -- actually, a lot of the stuff struck me as mangled aikido. I have no actual training in the style, nor have I ever really sparred a Bujinkan student, but I have been pretty skeptical of what I've seen so far. The flimsy kotegaeshi to ass-smack counter throw I saw in that one video was a highlight.

I did hear someone on e-budo arguing that early on there was something to it -- that the original book Hatsumi produced had some interesting ideas in it -- and people once trained seriously. Maybe that's true today of some groups as well. Maybe. I'm definitely weirded out by the present organization.

But at any rate, given that aikido is considered t3h suck around here, I do empathize on some level. I actually share their opinion of BTJ being lame, but I understand and appreciate the desire to keep going despite the apparent impossibility of the endeavor. (That's not sarcasm.) If BTJers can get their act together, more power to them.

Just...please...PLEASE...no more demo videos with Enya soundtracks. That's all I ask in the meantime.

[FilipinoNinja]

I did ninjering for about a month...it was just too silly.

Dead patterns practiced pretty slowly.
Out of shape students (not on their way to being in shape). Alot of complicated 'moves'.

In order to learn how to fight you only need about 4 punches, 3 kicks, 2 throws and a choke. That'll get you close enough. Why would you need a 'smart' 'system'. Most fights don't last long enough for you to be smart.

Funny thing is, a colleague told me he got in a street fight this past weekend. He has no training. Guess what, the fight ended up on the ground. Some guy bumped into him and shoved him for no reason, my friend started throwing haymakers (breaking his hand in the process), they clinched (fell back into each other) and then they fell down and fought on the ground (flailed and punched)...this is basically what hedge did to the retard* but hedge did it with technique....


*retard is a bullshido copyrighted word

this is just a thought but do you think the fight ended up on the ground BECAUSE he had no training?

[FilipinoNinja]

Ninjer please! If someone thinks the bujinkan doesn't work very well you assume they must be an idiot? Ninijitsu (aka bujinkan) isn't as smart as you think it is. The bujinkan, on the whole has never been systematically alive and and it shows. Look at some UFC, that's what good fighting at the three ranges looks like not standing in ichimonji and catching lunge punches out of the air.

there have been from what ive heard 2 ninjutsu practitioners in UFC, one that got owned and one that won UFC. Personally i think combining Ninjitsu with something else is effective, i was watching something called 'Final Fu' with a whole bunch of martial artists and the guy who won knew Ninjutsu/ TKD, i think it was point fighting though but i still like the thought.

[FilipinoNinja]

[quote=BloodMagus]Go back up to my post, and REREAD the paragraphs starting at
[sarcasm]Its not because they're undeniably the best [/sarcasm], its simply for the fact these arts have been tested in competition over the years, and hence we can see what is effective and what is not.

As for a the multiple opponents crap, firstly I hardly see bujinkan dealing with it any better, and secondly you can still take on multiple opponents. I've deployed grappling at work in a couple of situations, generally taking a meat shield with a RNC and backing up towards a wall. If I had the room and training, I suspect I could throw an opponent into another.
How about I start sharing MY STORIES about Bujinkan & Ninjutsu?
Stop talking about shit you clearly don't know

Have you ever been in a real fight? Has your instructor been in one?
At least Marl took some basic initiative to try a round in the ring. EVen if it was against a larper.


who says i ONLY do bujinkan ive had past training with kempo, kickboxing, and a little TKD, and a friend taught me in shorin ryu karate(he's a black belt), if im in a real fight im not gunna lunge punch, im not stupid, im just saying bujinkan works from my point of view, im very sorry if i seem like mr preacher ninjaman, please forgive me if i insulted any of you, im just trying to defend bujinkan because so many people put it down. I think any martial art will work if you train properly at it and that includes bujinkan. Kalaripayattu is a different story...it looks wierd

[cyrijl]

I think it went to the ground because that is where you end up if you trip. And please don't tell me ninjers don't trip