Exploring the Ninja

[Fitz]

Heh, my 5 year old son has quite a few fake swords, cricket bats and the like he likes to hit me with. I cant catch his sword strikes between both palms the way this book said to do it more than maybe 10% or 20% of the time, and this is a rubber/foam sword and a little kid (although revved up :new_2guns). My view is this ninja approach of clapping a sword blade is not going to work due to the power of the strike if not its incredible speed. If it doesn't work to defend against small children then there's a big problem.

That sounds like an "Ashida Kim"-ism. While hugely funny Ashida Kim has nothing to do with either historic ninjutsu, any martial art associated with the Ninja in Japan or any of the contemporary Ninpo/Ninjutsu revivals since the end of the Second World War. His notions come from a combination of film, comics and 1960s mail order martial arts and shouldn't be used as source materials for understanding anything about Japanese Martial Arts.

There are several "unarmed against sword" and "minimally armed against sword methods contained within Japanese martial arts. None of them include the notion of doing a two handed sword catch by simply slapping your hands together. The majority involve learning how to evade the swords blade and edge or using specialized or improvized weapons to help in diflecting or trapping the blade.

[Fitz]

This is actually my point, the system is combat worthy,

Actually "Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu" isn't known to be combat worthy nor has it been applied in real combat by its primary source and so-called "Living Densho." Hatsumi's professional career was in medicine, performance and martial arts instruction. He hasn't been near combat or even police action at any point in that career. He certainly never saw any warfare as either a Samurai or a Ninja would have when the Ryuha he inherited were formed.

Also remember that BBT =/= the Nine Schools. Rather it is a distillation of those nine schools by their present Soke into an art uniquely his own.

[Virus]

Actually "Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu" isn't known to be combat worthy nor has it been applied in real combat by its primary source and so-called "Living Densho." Hatsumi's professional career was in medicine, performance and martial arts instruction. He hasn't been near combat or even police action at any point in that career. He certainly never saw any warfare as either a Samurai or a Ninja would have when the Ryuha he inherited were formed.

Also remember that BBT =/= the Nine Schools. Rather it is a distillation of those nine schools by their present Soke into an art uniquely his own.

He was a bone setter which is not real medicine.

[Airman Kai]

This thread is :mblah05:

We're so happy that you have t3h real ninjitsu. Now you can spread t3h real gospel and begin t3h real resurgence of t3h fucking real ninja. :eusa_naug

[Fitz]

He was a bone setter which is not real medicine.

Osteopathic medicine is something of an odd topic. Some forms of it are recognized by allopathic medicine as valid while at the same time other elements aren't. Sekkotsu, the Japanese form of bonesetting, tends to be similar to Physical Therapy and Sports Medicine with older elements of Traditional Chinese Medicine reinterpreted by the Japanese.

It's still medicine, it simply isn't Euro Allopathic Medicine, but this debate works better in its own thread if you're so inclinded.

[Virus]

There's no such thing as "eastern" or "western" medicine, it either works or it doesn't. If it works, it's medicine. If it works, there must be a high level of evidence through double blind, placebo controlled trials before it is considered valid. And the term "allopathy" was a label invented by homeopaths, who also practice pseudo-medicine.

[reptileddp]

did any think about the possiblity that if you dont understand the training methods, then obviously YOUr not gonna understand it?

maybe the whole catching a sword with your bare hands is not to teach you to catch a sword with your bare hands....it teaches confidence...and honing in on the warrior spirit.

and maybe since Bujinkan is battlefield tested it's exactly that! it's alot easier to catch someone in armour who hits down with a sword with your bare hands while you are in armour,........

it's not a technique even bujinkan member's wouldnt try to use if you have a guy swinging a sword around....or at all for that matter.

you need to learn what the technique is trying to teach you before you judge it!

In the bujinkan we do not just practice lunge punching...this is just basics, for the sake of doing a technique...we practice with different types of punches, and pulling punches, and we do not only do a technique in 1 way, so if you have seen 1 technique done and make a judgement based on it, (and i've said this before by saying your a fool...what i mean by that is that it is foolish to judge a bujinkan technique by only looking at 1 variation of it. (which is usaully from the basic lunge punch) this is FOOLISH of one to do...

i am a security forces member in the USAF, it's like a cop and in war time like an army ranger, except we protect the base rather than going outside the wire..
i do alot of Law Enforcement work, and i use what i have learned in the bujinkan every weekend at work. i use to train in many martail arts including BJJ, Judo, Kickboxing, Kung fu, hapkido, aikido.....
Bujinkan is the only art i use and it's the only thing i have ever felt comftorble using in a real altercation.

if your going to judge bujinkan you need to first go to japan and train with Hatsumi. dont judge something you dont understand. there is alot more to what you learn than the physical tehcnnique.

that is the best way to get an answer to the question. how can you judge (any art) if you dont truly understand it?

[Airman Kai]

did any think about the possiblity that if you dont understand the training methods, then obviously YOUr not gonna understand it?

maybe the whole catching a sword with your bare hands is not to teach you to catch a sword with your bare hands....it teaches confidence...and honing in on the warrior spirit.

and maybe since Bujinkan is battlefield tested it's exactly that! it's alot easier to catch someone in armour who hits down with a sword with your bare hands while you are in armour,........

it's not a technique even bujinkan member's wouldnt try to use if you have a guy swinging a sword around....or at all for that matter.

you need to learn what the technique is trying to teach you before you judge it!

In the bujinkan we do not just practice lunge punching...this is just basics, for the sake of doing a technique...we practice with different types of punches, and pulling punches, and we do not only do a technique in 1 way, so if you have seen 1 technique done and make a judgement based on it, (and i've said this before by saying your a fool...what i mean by that is that it is foolish to judge a bujinkan technique by only looking at 1 variation of it. (which is usaully from the basic lunge punch) this is FOOLISH of one to do...

i am a security forces member in the USAF, it's like a cop and in war time like an army ranger, except we protect the base rather than going outside the wire..
i do alot of Law Enforcement work, and i use what i have learned in the bujinkan every weekend at work. i use to train in many martail arts including BJJ, Judo, Kickboxing, Kung fu, hapkido, aikido.....
Bujinkan is the only art i use and it's the only thing i have ever felt comftorble using in a real altercation.

if your going to judge bujinkan you need to first go to japan and train with Hatsumi. dont judge something you dont understand. there is alot more to what you learn than the physical tehcnnique.

that is the best way to get an answer to the question. how can you judge (any art) if you dont truly understand it?

You are :bduh:

We understand the Bujinkan perfectly. We understand that they (and you) are full of it.

[Virus]

+1 teh correct for airman kai.

[nsearch]

The difference the kickboxer can do them well, against other people that can do, and defend them well. I'll wager that if you walk into a kickboxing club and start using bujinkan shin kicks the coach will see mistakes in your form. I hope you don't think that you have unlocked the kickboxing in the taijutsu?

No of course not , i train muay thai for shin kicks, and before you even say it lol, no i do noy take muay thai, but use the "form"/"BLUEPRINT" because they know how to throw them well, as well with elbows. if i was going to learn a graplling tech, i would learn a bjj tech.
I take and borrow from any art i can whenever i can, but that doesnt mean that Bujinkan is not worthy to be called factual.


Look i can so understand why we get a bad name, with goons every where but you can rest assure that bjj will in time have there goons as well if they dont already.


Also just a judgement, which i cant say is 100% true 100% of the time, but looking on youtube at bjj videos this "aliveness" is horse shit, there was no resistance from what i seen, while doing techs, one guy flopping another around while he just went with it, so tell me what makes the difference,except that true many people i would say in bjj/mma are in love with events like the ufc and want to spar and go more balls out later in their trainning, but dude, alot of Bujinkan people do to and every other style im sure, its the person not the style that matters, and to disregard a complete system based soley on the fact that it doesnt appear in the ufc is pretty judgemental and stupid in my opinion anyway.


I feel that in time , Bujinkan will rise to the challenge and adapt just like they have every other time in history.

swords now to firearms etc..., but it is a part of out history to be at least aware of where we come from to some extent, as for me i honestly dont care about the history or any other aspect but hand to hand.

[Fitz]

did any think about the possiblity that if you dont understand the training methods, then obviously YOUr not gonna understand it?

Have you considered that more then a few of us do understand the training methods and might even hold rank in the Bujinkan?

i use to train in many martail arts including BJJ, Judo, Kickboxing, Kung fu, hapkido, aikido.....

With whom and for how long in each of these?

if your going to judge bujinkan you need to first go to japan and train with Hatsumi. dont judge something you dont understand. there is alot more to what you learn than the physical tehcnnique.

An art is not judged solely by its senior practitioner or founder. It is judged upon its ability to train and prepare its exponents in what it claims to be.

[reptileddp]

alright..this is what i'm talking about... you claim to understand bujinkan? hmmm...sure....

there's alot of bujinkan out there...that doesnt mean they are good, nor do they understand bujinkan.

you can train in bujinkan and never understand it. just because a bujinkan school is bujinkan and there doing our techniques does not mean they understand it.
that is why i say go to Hatsumi...to get the real deal.

this is the thing with the bujinkan...we do not train to go out and fight, we train to learn about fighting, not to learn to go and fight.

there is so much i would like to say here...it's just too much to type...and i'm not gonna waste my days away to explain it.

there are even alot of 10th dan out there that suck and dont really understand bujinkan...

what hatsumi is teaching is not meant to be done the way he does it....and there are many hidden principles and complicated things involved with the techniques...the bujinkan gets into strategy of the technique...What hatsumi teaches, and what you get on a video of him are 2 different things...

you may have trained bujinkan before, but from who's perspective did you understand it?
the bujinkan's or your's???

let's put the BS aside and seriously think about what i am saying, seriously try to answer this question with some intelligence...
you guys sure act like real martial artists...

airman kai-
that's a lot of qoute, with such little to say. you really showed me how much you know...
by the way my name is daniel parks, security forces, stationed at Ramstein AB, GE
i currently hold a 7th DAN in bujinkan and several other 1ST - 5th Dans in the styles previously mentioned...i was also the West coast brazilian jujitsu champion in 1997, i competed (west coast/Canada/Japan) in Judo and BJJ (my BJJ instructor trained under Rickson Gracie/is a retired army ranger) when i was in highschool for 4 yrs.
bujinkan was not my 1st martail art.
i have been a cop for almost 8yrs now, and i have worked as a bouncer in japan, and for a japanese security company which handles personnal security for most celebrities in and out of Japan.

i have used what i have learned in the bujinkan on and off-duty in several situations,....so your telling me that bujinkan doesn't work?

as far as bujinkan is concerned i learned my basics from Nagato sensei, and a personnal friend of mine who is a 12th Dan and Japanese shihan. i have lived in japan for several years and i was stationed at yokota AB for a few years. since i left japan i continue to travel back there 3 times per year for training.

[nsearch]

alright..this is what i'm talking about... you claim to understand bujinkan? hmmm...sure....

there's alot of bujinkan out there...that doesnt mean they are good, nor do they understand bujinkan.

you can train in bujinkan and never understand it. just because a bujinkan school is bujinkan and there doing our techniques does not mean they understand it.
that is why i say go to Hatsumi...to get the real deal.

this is the thing with the bujinkan...we do not train to go out and fight, we train to learn about fighting, not to learn to go and fight.

there is so much i would like to say here...it's just too much to type...and i'm not gonna waste my days away to explain it.

there are even alot of 10th dan out there that suck and dont really understand bujinkan...

what hatsumi is teaching is not meant to be done the way he does it....and there are many hidden principles and complicated things involved with the techniques...the bujinkan gets into strategy of the technique...What hatsumi teaches, and what you get on a video of him are 2 different things...

you may have trained bujinkan before, but from who's perspective did you understand it?
the bujinkan's or your's???

let's put the BS aside and seriously think about what i am saying, seriously try to answer this question with some intelligence...
you guys sure act like real martial artists...

airman kai-
that's a lot of qoute, with such little to say. you really showed me how much you know...
by the way my name is daniel parks, security forces, stationed at Ramstein AB, GE
i currently hold a 7th DAN in bujinkan and several other 1ST - 5th Dans in the styles previously mentioned...i was also the West coast brazilian jujitsu champion in 1997, i competed (west coast/Canada/Japan) in Judo and BJJ (my BJJ instructor trained under Rickson Gracie/is a retired army ranger) when i was in highschool for 4 yrs.
bujinkan was not my 1st martail art.
i have been a cop for almost 8yrs now, and i have worked as a bouncer in japan, and for a japanese security company which handles personnal security for most celebrities in and out of Japan.

i have used what i have learned in the bujinkan on and off-duty in several situations,....so your telling me that bujinkan doesn't work?

as far as bujinkan is concerned i learned my basics from Nagato sensei, and a personnal friend of mine who is a 12th Dan and Japanese shihan. i have lived in japan for several years and i was stationed at yokota AB for a few years. since i left japan i continue to travel back there 3 times per year for training.

Works for me!

[Virus]

I can see that you are falling back on the same tired old argument of "t3h r34l". Everything we have seen wasn't the real bujinkan, and the stuff you are doing is the real bujinkan.

[Virus]

"I currently hold a 7th DAN in bujinkan and several other 1ST - 5th Dans in the styles previously mentioned.."

Are you a BJJ and Judo blackbelt?