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A bit about my eclectic style of kung fu--Wun Hop Kuen Do

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    A bit about my eclectic style of kung fu--Wun Hop Kuen Do

    I figured as "noob" to these boards I would post some information about the style of Kung Fu I study/teach, since most people are unfamiliar with it. This is from my website:

    Wun Hop Kuen Do Kung Fu, which means "combination fist art style", was founded by Sifu Al Dacascos in 1969. Wun Hop Kuen Do (WHKD) is a style of KAJUKENBO that incorporates Chinese and Filipino martial arts into the traditional KAJUKENBO system. KAJUKENBO is a composite system of martial arts that was formed between 1947-1949 by grandmasters from various forms of martial arts. Mr. P.Y.Y. Choo brought karate to the system (KA). Mr. Frank Ordonez brought Ju-Jitsu, while Mr. J. Holck contributed Judo (JU-JU-Jitsu). Professor Adriano D. Emperado, the only remaining founder of the system, contributed Kenpo (KEN), as well as the Filipino fighting arts. Professor C. Chang contributed the boxing (BO) aspects of the art, including both western boxing and Chinese boxing, more commonly called Kung Fu.
    As a composite system, KAJUKENBO sought to adapt and combine martial arts styles to create an all-inclusive system that could be effective in any street scenario. Sifu Al Dacascos took this further, incorporating significantly more Kung Fu elements into the system, as well as additional Filipino knife and stick fighting (known as Kali, Arnis, or Escrima). He further modified the system by incorporating 25 unique fighting principles to help consolidate combat knowledge into a common language that can be discussed and referred to in class. Finally, Sifu Al Dacascos further emphasized practically in his style, resulting in a system that prides itself on being reliable and practical in real-life encounters.
    WHKD is commonly referred to as a "system without a system". The art seeks to adapt to any situation and incorporate new techniques and methodologies as they are encountered by practitioners. Within this framework, the style still maintains it traditional roots in Kung Fu, teaching the "ways to preserve rather than destroy", and seeking to instill a respect for humankind and sense of calm that should be present in any true martial artist.
    Instruction is based around a set of requirements: blocks, strikes, holds, locks, throws, combinations, setups, history, and fighting principles that are contained in a red binder affectionately referred to as the "Redbook". The Redbook contains the list of requirements needed for each rank in the system. Next to each listed requirement is a description of the technique, to aid the student in study outside of class, and a place where the instructor may "sign off' the technique--a form of evaluation used to determine whether the technique is performed by the student at a level suitable for testing. When all the requirements of a given rank are signed off, the student may test for the next belt. The ranking system in WHKD is: white, yellow, orange, purple, blue, green, brown, and degrees of black. Red belts, which signify assistant instructor, may also be given out under certain circumstances.

    #2
    "He further modified the system by incorporating 25 unique fighting principles to help consolidate combat knowledge into a common language that can be discussed and referred to in class."

    Okay, I'll bite, will you provide some examples so we may see if they are unique?

    Incidently, most really good principles are found in multiple systems.

    Comment


      #3
      What makes them unique isn't so much that they are completely revolutionary or never thought of, but rather that they were codified, given definitions and a written curriculum, and then taught explicitly from the beginning of a student's education, especially given that it was developed in the 60s.

      An example of a couple of fighting principles are "critical distance line" and "bridging the gap." The critical distance line is the distance from an opponent at which they can hit you reliably. It is variable based on the two people fighting. In a fight, you want to "bridge the gap," close the distance between your critical distance line and your opponents, quickly, deliver a series of blows, etc, and then get out of their critical distance line before they can fully retaliate.

      Thus critical distance line is essentially the range of your opponent, but with the caviat that it's adjusted for skill.

      Similarly, bridging the gap is the concept that you must get inside your opponents range in order to hit them (assuming similar skill of course), and that you don't want to stay there longer than you need to.

      Not revolutionary in itself, but when you can discuss methods to bridge the gap in a class, and everyone understands what you are saying because they have read/listened to these concepts before, teaching becomes a lot more efficient and valuable. That is the unique part.

      Comment


        #4
        Oh come on now Jason, just admit it and say you do Ke?po ;)

        Heh, j/k. Very informative post.

        Comment


          #5
          LOL, actually WHKD has move a good ways from the Ke?po roots of Kajukenbo. It doesn't flow the same way or approach "problems" like Ke?po does.

          Comment


            #6
            Jason -

            A quick question. Are there allowances built into such things as "critical distance line" and "bridging the gap" for multiple opponents? From my experience, a 1on1 street fight is a very rare occurance. Above you did specifically mention two people fighting.

            Thanks!

            Comment


              #7
              A multiple opponent scenario is a rather lose-or-lose situation, and I don't believe any martial art out there has a reliable, realistic answer for it.

              Comment


                #8
                Actually, as a street art, WHKD spends a lot of time on multi-man. For your black belt, you have to spar 10 on 1 (other people are mid-to low belts) at heavy contact. Crippling strikes are simulated of course (a kick near the knee results in the person acting as if their knee ligaments are broken, etc), but beyond that, it's as realistic as you can get.

                If you can't take out your opponents, you don't get your belt.

                Consequently, critical distance line and bridging the gap are taught as universal concepts, with direct applications to multi-man. In a multi-man situation, one must consider the critical distance line of all your opponents at once, and bridging the gap involves a lot of "mental calculus" to determine which paths provide the minimum "total gap" that must be bridge in order to strike an opponent--ie which way will put me in the least line of fire.
                Last edited by SifuJason; 2/23/2007 3:16pm, . Reason: typo

                Comment


                  #9
                  Jason -

                  Thanks for the info. You are very correct in refering to it as "mental calculus". If I ever make it to your part of the woods, I would enjoy dropping in an observing for a bit.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by El Macho
                    A multiple opponent scenario is a rather lose-or-lose situation, and I don't believe any martial art out there has a reliable, realistic answer for it.
                    You are very correct. I wasn't looking to see if they had solved the puzzle of multiple opponent, but more asking if they took into consideration teaching the differences to students as they grow in training.

                    I am always amazed at how many people never learn that what may work on one guy, might get you slaughtered by two.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by thaibox
                      You are very correct. I wasn't looking to see if they had solved the puzzle of multiple opponent, but more asking if they took into consideration teaching the differences to students as they grow in training.

                      I am always amazed at how many people never learn that what may work on one guy, might get you slaughtered by two.
                      This is especially true for weapon-defense techniques.

                      There is a bit of WHKD in Colorado if you are in Denver. Sifu Ben is a 5th degree in the system and is quite good.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by thaibox
                        Jason -

                        A quick question. Are there allowances built into such things as "critical distance line" and "bridging the gap" for multiple opponents? From my experience, a 1on1 street fight is a very rare occurance. Above you did specifically mention two people fighting.

                        Thanks!

                        Even in an all out melee, the nature of fighting is one on one. The added stress of dealing with more than one person is one thing, but those who think otherwise have been watching one too many movies.

                        Originally posted by thaibox
                        I am always amazed at how many people never learn that what may work on one guy, might get you slaughtered by two.

                        I'm always amazed at the how many people never learn that if they intend to deal with more than one guy, maybe they might want to learn how to deal with one guy of skill first.


                        Okay, I'm trolling you just a little bit. But, if you could, will you elaborate on what you see "will get you slaughtered by two" that those one on one people don't know about and/or never realize is an issue?
                        Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.
                        "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

                        "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

                        My Bullshido fan club threads:
                        Tom Kagan's a big hairy...
                        Tom Kagan can lick my BALLS
                        Tom Kagan teaches _ing __un and bigotry?
                        Tom Kagan: Serious discussion here
                        Lamokio asks the burning question is Tom Kagan a pussy or just cruising for some
                        I'm Dave the gay Kickboxer from Manchester and I have the hots for Tom Kagan
                        TOM KAGAN, OPEN ME, THE MKT ARE COMING FOR YOU ! ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH TO MEET ?
                        ATTN TOM KAGAN
                        World Dominator 'Kagan' in plot to lie about real Kung Fu and Martial Arts
                        Tom Kagan just gave me my third negative rep in a day
                        I am infatuated with Tom Kagan
                        Tom Kagan is a fat balding white guy.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Hi Tom,

                          I wasn't saying that 1on1 people were not aware or didn't realize. I was refering to such things as with one opponent you can close, do what you need to and hopfully get out without really having to worry if by closing you made sure that one of your opponents was between you and the other opponent. Or a quick evaluation of your situation would determine that closing and using opponent 1 as a body shield against opponent 2 would be better then just trying to hit 1 and then shift to 2.

                          As you stated above, it is of primary importance to train to be able to "handle" one person of skill. But I think that even during a 1on1, you need to be prepared mentally and tactically for the chance of another person joining the frey at any moment.

                          What brought this question about? This past weekend I saw a couple guys going at it outside a bar. About 30 seconds into the fight one of the guy's friends walked up (in plain sight of everyone, including the combatants) and clocked the other guy. I heard the clockee afterwards say to his friend that he never even saw the second guy comming.
                          Last edited by thaibox; 2/23/2007 4:15pm, .

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Jason -

                            Sorry, didn't mean to hi-jack your thread. I am north of Denver. Is your fellow instructor downtown or elsewhere?

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by SifuJason
                              Actually, as a street art, WHKD spends a lot of time on multi-man. For your black belt, you have to spar 10 on 1 (other people are mid-to low belts) at heavy contact. Crippling strikes are simulated of course (a kick near the knee results in the person acting as if their knee ligaments are broken, etc), but beyond that, it's as realistic as you can get.

                              If you can't take out your opponents, you don't get your belt.

                              Consequently, critical distance line and bridging the gap are taught as universal concepts, with direct applications to multi-man. In a multi-man situation, one must consider the critical distance line of all your opponents at once, and bridging the gap involves a lot of "mental calculus" to determine which paths provide the minimum "total gap" that must be bridge in order to strike an opponent--ie which way will put me in the least line of fire.
                              I believe we've disagreed on this in the past over the multiple opponents training, but good on ya for gearing up and going at it with hard sparring to execute it rather than compliant demonstrations.

                              Comment

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