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    Dog Brothers, and on

    Hi,

    So, I find this Dog Brothers stuff fascinating.

    I want to learn what they do, or understand why their discipline (Kali?) sucks. Please introduce me to the topic.

    Thank you,

    Rafe
    Last edited by Hiro Protagonist; 11/08/2012 6:04am, .
    www.childsplaycharity.org

    #2
    Good morning, Sunshine... :-)

    Dog brothers are the standard to which all other stick fighting schools are to be measured, in case we are talking about realistic training methods. They also incorporate grappling into their stickfighting, as well as realistic (aluminum trainer) knife training, etc.

    Everything about them is widely available on the net, no secret, at least that is my understanding, as an outsider.

    They are in Europe, too, but a bit farther from you: http://www.dogbrothers.ch/pages/en.php?lang=EN

    CLICK & WATCH
    :
    I got BULLSHIDO ON TV!!!

    "Bruce Lee sucks because I slammed my nuts with nunchucks trying to do that stupid shit back in the day. I still managed to have two kids. I forgive you Bruce.
    " - by Vorpal

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      #3
      It is my highest ambition to fight at the European Gathering in 2014.

      An important note about your OP Hiro: Its probably inaccurate to describe the Dog Brothers as having a discipline as such.

      Its true that most of them come from FMA backgrounds, but the Gatherings are open to all styles and there are several members with CMA, JMA and Krabi Krabong backgrounds/influences. If you watch videos of the more recent Euro Gatherings you'll also see a number of guys wielding WMA longswords.

      Something that Crafty Dog seems quite keen on (from my reading of his work at least) is the distinction between the DBMA association, which is the "style" and the Dog Brothers, which is the group of psychos with sticks.

      I'm sure some of the guys who've actually been and fought at a Gathering will be along shortly.

      Comment


        #4
        While I agree that they have brought a great deal of aliveness to Kali, my complaint with them is similar to kendo.

        They would not move like that if those sticks were replaced with machetes.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Bodhi108 View Post
          They would not move like that if those sticks were replaced with machetes.
          A fair point, realism in blade training is something that seems to provoke a lot of discussion in Dog Bros circles.

          How would (or do?) you do "alive" training that would translate to "machette combat"?

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Fuzzy View Post
            A fair point, realism in blade training is something that seems to provoke a lot of discussion in Dog Bros circles.
            Yeah, that's my biggest complaint with the Dog Brothers fights using aluminum knife trainers - "knife" becomes "short club", and since slashes with them don't hurt, they can be ignored. It puts a real skew on how it's used.

            How would (or do?) you do "alive" training that would translate to "machette combat"?
            Here's a video where they're using aluminum ginunting (so, close enough to a machete) trainers:
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97KJ...eature=g-all-u

            They're going at a reduced pace, since getting hit with one of those is going to be distinctly more impact than with a stick. I would say one would have to switch back and forth between blade trainers and sticks, so that you could get the higher aliveness levels of the stick, but the blade awareness of the trainers.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Chili Pepper View Post
              Yeah, that's my biggest complaint with the Dog Brothers fights using aluminum knife trainers - "knife" becomes "short club", and since slashes with them don't hurt, they can be ignored. It puts a real skew on how it's used.
              To be honest I find this even with our rubber knife sparring, stabs always hurt more, so slashing gets left by the wayside.

              Comment


                #8
                i thought they used shock knives, so that slashes *do* hurt, am i wrong about that?

                i've suggested them for my dojo's tomiki aikido classes but no one seems interested.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Ming Loyalist View Post
                  i thought they used shock knives, so that slashes *do* hurt, am i wrong about that?

                  i've suggested them for my dojo's tomiki aikido classes but no one seems interested.
                  From what I've read, they have tried shock knives and they work very well for "blade awareness", but they unfortunately don't stand up to the rigours of Gathering-style fights.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Fuzzy View Post
                    How would (or do?) you do "alive" training that would translate to "machette combat"?
                    You start very slowly and progress very slowly.

                    Obviously only highly skilled folks with years of training should be attempting even moderately live training with bladed weapons.

                    I found this video of "Mr. Shastar Vidya" + Rapid Arnis Intl.
                    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 11/08/2012 9:23am, .

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                      #11
                      Thank you very much, guys. :)

                      So, if I want to participate in something like that, what should I train?

                      My next endeavors in the martial seem to lead to a longer engagement with JJJ.
                      www.childsplaycharity.org

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                        #12
                        Here's a list of European training groups, not sure how far you are from Barcelona:

                        http://www.dogbrothers.ch/pages/en/t...ing-groups.php

                        Failing that, I'd say train something with weapons to complement your JJJ and work on conditioning, maybe try and attend some seminars (which is my plan for next year).

                        Also if I make it to the Euromega next year I'd be happy to hit you with a padded stick in preparation.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I've gotten involved with the Dog Brothers in the last few years, fighting at 3 open gatherings and attending another 3 or 4 as a spectator/drummer/crowd defender (they used to have guys with big shields to keep the fights from spilling into the crowd). While I could paraphrase some of their core philosophies, Marc Denny is more eloquent than I am, so I'll post the relevant parts.

                          First, there are some words that he says before every gathering starts:
                          The MAGIC WORDS: "No judges, no referees, no trophies. One rule only: Be friends at the end of the day. This means our goal is that no one spends the night in the hospital. Our goal is that everyone leaves with the IQ with which they came. No suing no one for no reason for nothing no how no way!Real Contact Stickfighting is Dangerous and only you are responsible for you, so protect yourself at all times
                          I like this approach, partly because its a good general set for avoiding injury without spelling out every single thing one shouldn't do. It also hints at the community nature of training- these events are about a tribe coming together to strengthen its members. If too much force is used, you break someone and the tribe is weaker, but if you use too little, then that person doesn't get the benefit and again the tribe is weaker. Contrast this with the purely individual nature of a lot of contest-based training.

                          Another thing is the terminology etc associated with dogs. One perspective:
                          The Dog Brothers name is symbolic as well. According to Denny, it came about because he saw that men practicing the martial arts seemed to have the behavior patterns of a pack of dogs: this pack versus that pack, hierarchy within the pack (Who’s the top dog? Who’s second? Who gets to breed?), etc. What is most important, however, is the bond of the pack. “It is sometimes said that if you’re not the lead sled dog, the view’s always the same,” Denny said. The bond, therefore, leads the students into different aspects of training, rather than to the who’s-better-than-whom debate. The metaphor of dogs includes some of the qualities dogs seem to have: courage, fidelity and loyalty-all of which the Dog Brothers try to incorporate into their training.
                          For a more complete overview of the DBMA group and fighting arts, read this page:
                          http://dogbrothers.com/?p=112#more-112


                          Originally posted by Ming Loyalist View Post
                          i thought they used shock knives, so that slashes *do* hurt, am i wrong about that?

                          i've suggested them for my dojo's tomiki aikido classes but no one seems interested.
                          They used them a few years ago, when the Gathering was at the Powerhouse Gym in LA. I was one of the guinea pigs. I shocked my arm before the match to test it, and didn't like it at all, but during the fight I don't remember feeling it at all (though I'm sure it hit me). One of the objections is that shock knives have a trigger/button you hold down to complete the circuit, so you have to squeeze as you attack. The other problem with that was when people would white-knuckle the weapon (cause the other guy has one and that's scary) and cause the batteries to run out too quickly. They're also very expensive and aluminum trainers provide the fear element enough (although only in a ballistic manner)

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Hiro Protagonist View Post
                            So, if I want to participate in something like that, what should I train?
                            The cheapest way I've found to make trainer machetes is to simply buy some of the cheapo $5 variety and use a bench grinder to blunt the edge till it's all but useless for slicing.

                            These are still not toys and can easily cause nasty bruises or even shallow lacerations. (like a butter knife) But they do allow a more forgiving margin of error than a live blade while providing realistic weight, balance and range.

                            Live blades are only for the very advanced and exceptionaly controled.
                            Last edited by Mr. Machette; 11/08/2012 11:58am, .

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Mr. Machette View Post
                              The cheapest way I've found to make trainer machetes is to simply buy some of the cheapo $5 variety and use a bench grinder to blunt the edge till it's all but useless for slicing.
                              Absolutely. I've got four cheap machetes that I've dulled, for just that sort of practice. Yes, they're still dangerous, and I've received some nasty bone bruises from them.

                              Also, every once in a while you need to file the burrs down, or you'll be sparring against a wood saw.

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