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    #46
    The Cultural Politics of Proprietorship: The Socio-historical Evolution of Japanese Swordsmanship and its Correlation with Cultural Nationalism

    https://ir.canterbury.ac.nz/handle/10092/6869

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      #47
      Originally posted by DCS View Post
      What I'm saying is Samurai as a social class, during Edo period, were not the badass motherfuckers of Sengoku Jidai but bureucrats and administrators, playing a similar role to the chinese scholar-bureaucrats. Even if members of warrior class were high in numbers at the beginning of Meiji Restoration, in fact they were warriors only by name, his societal role was of civil servants and some ocassional law enforcement.

      Sure, but this late Meiji samurai honor and what was honourable behaviour for medieval and early modern japanese warriors (the ones who fought in wars) didn't match.

      While back in the day, when samurai were risking their lifes in battle, bushido was about getting paid for killing your lord's enemies and switching sides when the other side offered better pay.
      So Samurai-as-Mercenary is as old as time, but Samurai-as-Knight is a 19th century fabrication. Am I getting it right?

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        #48
        Originally posted by Pship Destroyer View Post
        So Samurai-as-Mercenary is as old as time, but Samurai-as-Knight is a 19th century fabrication. Am I getting it right?
        At least you are not getting it wrong.

        This is worth reading: http://aas2.asian-studies.org/EAA/EA...s/10/3/641.pdf

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          #49
          This is probably quite OT but my understanding is that the "European ideals of gentlemen and chivalry", as applied to middle ages knights, are also a later fabrication.
          Based on my memories from high school, in the late middle ages/early renaissance, novels and stories about knights were very popular, and the high classes of the times (nobles but also often enriched merchants or otherwise burgeoises who somehow could make it into nobility) lergely "larped" knighthood, for example instituting a large number of tourneaments and jousts.
          Since a lot of the conception of "kightood" comes from this later period, also the european concept of the "brave knight" is quite dubious.

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            #50
            Originally posted by MisterMR View Post
            This is probably quite OT but my understanding is that the "European ideals of gentlemen and chivalry", as applied to middle ages knights, are also a later fabrication.
            Based on my memories from high school, in the late middle ages/early renaissance, novels and stories about knights were very popular, and the high classes of the times (nobles but also often enriched merchants or otherwise burgeoises who somehow could make it into nobility) largely "larped" knighthood, for example instituting a large number of tournaments and jousts.
            Since a lot of the conception of "knighthood" comes from this later period, also the European concept of the "brave knight" is quite dubious.
            Pretty much my understanding as well, although there may have been more truth to it than the Japanese version.

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