"Martial arts are for everyone."

[MaverickZ]

The more I train in the martial arts the more I believe that they are not for everyone. I think I'm starting to really understand the reasons why in history there existed warrior caste social classes. And the words of William J. Bennett are ringing more and more true.

It takes a special kind of person to subject themselves to pain and injury on a regular basis to prepare for something that may never come. It's a form of sociopathy.

Now, I'm no serviceman, but I don't think it's relegated to them alone.

How does this relate to tae kwon do? Well, the vast majority of schools, regardless of their TKD sect, market it as an art for everyone. But then, so do many other arts. But I just don't think it's true. And any benefit gained through dilettante practice can be gained at a faster rate and with less struggle through other activities. Martial arts without the pain and injuries and struggle is just pretending.

Martial arts are not for everyone.

[KiwiPhil889]

The more I train in the martial arts the more I believe that they are not for everyone. I think I'm starting to really understand the reasons why in history there existed warrior caste social classes. And the words of William J. Bennett are ringing more and more true.

It takes a special kind of person to subject themselves to pain and injury on a regular basis to prepare for something that may never come. It's a form of sociopathy.

Now, I'm no serviceman, but I don't think it's relegated to them alone.

How does this relate to tae kwon do? Well, the vast majority of schools, regardless of their TKD sect, market it as an art for everyone. But then, so do many other arts. But I just don't think it's true. And any benefit gained through dilettante practice can be gained at a faster rate and with less struggle through other activities. Martial arts without the pain and injuries and struggle is just pretending.

Martial arts are not for everyone.

Bold mine. Without the risk of pain and injuries the struggle is pointless... for me. Its the difficult that makes it enjoyable. The bruised shins, the accidental elbow in the eye while rolling,the fat lip cuz my arms got tired at the wrong time lol,the sore muscles and the buckets of sweat are why i keep going back.

I have to agree with the OP, sort of. ALIVE martial arts aren't for everyone, but damn they're fun!!

[Coach Josh]

Martial arts are for everyone fighting is not for everyone. You are confusing the two.

[MaverickZ]

Martial arts are for everyone fighting is not for everyone. You are confusing the two.

Could you elaborate please? I don't think I understand what you mean.

[Coach Josh]

Martial arts is not fighting. Its a way, a path, or a quest. Because we do not agree with certain training methods does not make them 100% ineffective. Remember virtually anything can work on someone who doesn't know shit.

So if some over weight guy takes up strip mall karate and loses some weight in the process and one day front snap kicks a dude in the face to defend himself was it a waste of his time? Is he going to go climb in the cage and take on GSP? No but the training in a low impact aerobic class or strip mall karate allowed him to gain some benefits from martial arts.

Everyone should train in a martial art. If its Tai Chi or Aikido or BJJ or Judo just remember that your training does not make you a fighter but a better prepared human. Understand the limits of the style your training and the level it is and will take you.

[It is Fake]

You guys are going to get into a semantics debate. I actually agree with most of your point Coach Josh, but disagree with how your distinct separation of Martial Art and fighting. I think they are both for everyone. For me you are wrong semantically Maverick because, anybody can try anything just not everyone is meant to succeed. Some people do, some people slide by, some people excel, some people are mediocre and some people quit.

[omoplatypus]

@coach josh:

you can be my wingman, anytime!

[Rivington]

And any benefit gained through dilettante practice can be gained at a faster rate and with less struggle through other activities.

Maybe, maybe not. Even if badminton is better than TKD (or whatever) for health and fitness, it only matters so long as the activity encourages compliance. Some people like sports and exercises that don't involve balls or helmets, or they prefer to be inside, or they have an interest in the cultural background of an art that keeps them coming back...and they wouldn't keep going back to another type of sport of a calisthenics class. Martial arts are fun, even if the sparring just involves kicking another heavily armored eight-year-old for points.

[MaverickZ]

You guys are going to get into a semantics debate. I actually agree with most of your point Coach Josh, but disagree with how your distinct separation of Martial Art and fighting. I think they are both for everyone. For me you are wrong semantically Maverick because, anybody can try anything just not everyone is meant to succeed. Some people do, some people slide by, some people excel, some people are mediocre and some people quit.

I think buried within my original post is the assumption that devoting a large amount of time to training in an activity results in a certain level of expertise. What I mean is, I don't think it's useful for most people to take on training in the martial arts. As their mindset is not appropriate for the training it will result in subpar training. This time could be used elsewhere. Which leads me to Coach Josh's post.

Coach, if we ignore the fighting aspect of the martial arts, what is left? The aerobic exercise aspect, strength training, flexibility training, tings of that nature, right? Given the amount of time spent on the fighting aspect, wouldn't it be more time efficient to train in something else. Gymnastics or yoga maybe. I can appreciate all the "side" benefits of martial arts training, but I think those benefits could be obtained faster and more directly in another activity. One wouldn't take up ice hockey to learn how to ice skate.

Maybe, maybe not. Even if badminton is better than TKD (or whatever) for health and fitness, it only matters so long as the activity encourages compliance. Some people like sports and exercises that don't involve balls or helmets, or they prefer to be inside, or they have an interest in the cultural background of an art that keeps them coming back...and they wouldn't keep going back to another type of sport of a calisthenics class. Martial arts are fun, even if the sparring just involves kicking another heavily armored eight-year-old for points.

I can appreciate the "fun" aspect of martial arts training. But I was avoiding that because it is very subjective, to both the participant and the actual training details. I think both the people who practice strip mall karate and the people who train for cage fighting have fun doing it. I just think uses the training usefully and the other doesn't.

[Rivington]

I can appreciate the "fun" aspect of martial arts training. But I was avoiding that because it is very subjective, to both the participant and the actual training details. I think both the people who practice strip mall karate and the people who train for cage fighting have fun doing it. I just think uses the training usefully and the other doesn't.

Ah, you're just confusing your preferences for objectivity then. Training "usefully" is just as subjective as not. You're a good martial artist—you can fight. So? Can someone with a shotgun end you pretty easily? Yup. Can plenty of other martial artists also break you in two? Sure. (How long, really, would you last in the UFC? How about if the UFC had no weight classes? We can go on...) So is martial arts training useful? Even if you become a professional fighter, so what? It's a star system, which means that you're likely better off financially working in an office or opening a dry cleaners with your brother-in-law. So are martial arts skills more useful than accounting skills, or singing ability, or a union card and some carpentry skills? Nope, not in most cases.

The only reason most people have to pursue martial arts is pure preference: because one wants to. And even if fighting is part of one's job, choosing that job is a matter of preference, albeit a preference constrained by circumstance. You seem to have some intuition that martial arts has some objective cross-situational utility that isn't in evidence. Not surprisingly, your intuition is informed by your own training and other beliefs about the benefits of sparring, working hard, and your need to have some sort of "objective" benefits for what you prefer doing. It's a common thing, but in most cases, people's preferences come first and "objective" proof or claims about the utility of this or that endeavor are just ad hoc justifications.

[MaverickZ]

Ah, you're just confusing your preferences for objectivity then. Training "usefully" is just as subjective as not. You're a good martial artist—you can fight. So? Can someone with a shotgun end you pretty easily? Yup. Can plenty of other martial artists also break you in two? Sure. (How long, really, would you last in the UFC? How about if the UFC had no weight classes? We can go on...) So is martial arts training useful? Even if you become a professional fighter, so what? It's a star system, which means that you're likely better off financially working in an office or opening a dry cleaners with your brother-in-law. So are martial arts skills more useful than accounting skills, or singing ability, or a union card and some carpentry skills? Nope, not in most cases.

The only reason most people have to pursue martial arts is pure preference: because one wants to. And even if fighting is part of one's job, choosing that job is a matter of preference, albeit a preference constrained by circumstance. You seem to have some intuition that martial arts has some objective cross-situational utility that isn't in evidence. Not surprisingly, your intuition is informed by your own training and other beliefs about the benefits of sparring, working hard, and your need to have some sort of "objective" benefits for what you prefer doing. It's a common thing, but in most cases, people's preferences come first and "objective" proof or claims about the utility of this or that endeavor are just ad hoc justifications.

I'm sorry, I think I didn't convey my point clearly. "Useful" is the wrong word for it. I wish I could come up with a better one but the best that comes to mind is appropriate. The original purpose of martial arts is fighting, that is the reason why any particular one was invented. Practicing martial arts without keeping fighting central is not using martial arts for their intended purpose. And if a person is not training in the martial arts to learn to fight but to gain some benefit of the training to fight then my argument is that those benefits can be gained elsewhere more effectively. I especially think this is true because the majority of the benefits gained in martial arts training require the kind of mindset that most people don't have, that love of the pain.

Of course I understand that people pursue martial arts because they "want to". But that's not really what I'm talking about.

[Coach Josh]

OK so your contention is that martial arts is for fighting? Why would you train in anything if you are not using it for fighting?

Name me one style of hand to hand combat that has been used by a military to win a battle?

[MaverickZ]

OK so your contention is that martial arts is for fighting? Why would you train in anything if you are not using it for fighting?

I don't know, that's my main point. I train in martial arts to learn to fight hand to hand and with hand held weapons.

Name me one style of hand to hand combat that has been used by a military to win a battle?

I don't think the use of any one thing has won a battle. Winning a battle takes a combination of weaponry, strategy, and politics. I don't think I've suggested anywhere that armed forces should be training in hand to hand martial arts to win battles. I wouldn't doubt that some soldier somewhere has defeated an opponent through hand to hand fighting at some point.

But modern military forces do use martial arts as a tool to teach a warrior mindset to their soldiers. They do so by teaching them the fighting applications of whatever style they are learning.

[Coach Josh]

But modern military forces do use martial arts as a tool to teach a warrior mindset to their soldiers. They do so by teaching them the fighting applications of whatever style they are learning.

So now you have answered your own question.

[MaverickZ]

So now you have answered your own question.

I'm afraid you lost me again. I'm having a bit of a slow morning. Can you explain that to me please?