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    CMA History

    [1][2][3] Shoubo, renamed Quan in the Southern Song dynasty, was considered a form of basic combat training to prepare troops for weapons training, but on its own was only a combat system of last resort once weapons were lost or broken beyond use.[4]

    Shoubo/Quan was not confined merely to the ranks of the military and was widely practiced throughout the civilian population. However, in an ironic foreshadowing of the passage of Krav Maga into the civilian population, embellishing Shoubo/Quan with less practical techniques was common. This lead Mid- Ming general Qi Jiguang to condemn these new huafa [5][6][7], built on the back of a highly export driven economy geared around producing high quality manufactured items for Western consumers, sound familiar? However, critical for the investigation of the history of martial arts was explosion of writing and manuals under the Ming. The Chinese have long been keen on manuals, as can be seen by the 10th and 11th century manuals providing DIY instructions for how to build your own family shrine.[8][9]Complete Book of Miscellany [10]CMA and religion[11][12][13]

    I intend to follow this up with a lengthy piece on the Shaolin monastery and Myth busting.

    Again I would remind experienced CMA practitioners that I hold no qualifications in CMA or experience and merely present this as student of Chinese history who is also a martial artist. This is intended to provoke discussion rather than to act as any sort of definitive article on CMA history.

    [1] Henning CMA in Historical perspective p. 174.

    [2] Henning Academia encounters the CMA p. 319.

    [3] Gu Shi, Annotated Han History Bibliographies, p. 205

    [4] Henning, Academia encounters the CMA p. 320.

    [5] Ibid

    [6] Henning, CMA in Historical perspective p. 174.

    [7] Brook, The Confusions of Pleasure and Clunas, Superfluous Things

    [8] Bray, Technics and Civilization in Late Imperial China, p. 22.

    [9] Henning, CMA in Historical perspective, p. 175.

    [10] Henning, Academia encounters the CMA p. 322.

    [11][12] Henning, Academia encounters the CMA p. 327.

    [13] Esherick, The Origins of the Boxer Uprising, p. 357
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    #2
    I really enjoyed reading this, and dare I say, think I learned something in the process.
    Fantastic bibliography, there is some really good reading there.

    Looking forward to reading your Shaolin Mythbusters post.
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      #3
      you have offended my family, and you have offended the shaolin temple...


      and...



      um...




      nice work. carry on, then.
      "Face punches are an essential character building part of a martial art. You don't truly love your children unless you allow them to get punched in the face." - chi-conspiricy
      "When I was a little boy, I had a sailor suit, but it didn't mean I was in the Navy." - Mtripp on the subject of a 5 year old karate black belt
      "Without actual qualifications to be a Zen teacher, your instructor is just another roundeye raping Asian culture for a buck." - Errant108
      "Seriously, who gives a fuck what you or Errant think? You're Asian males, everyone just ignores you, unless you're in a krotty movie." - new2bjj

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        #4
        I have CMA background AND I went to GWU to get a masters in Chinese history. There isn't easily accessible history of CMA, but there is tons of history which leads into it, for example histories of the boxer and Taiping rebellions, histories of the secret society and brotherhood movements, etc. What there really is NONE OF is CMA people actually reading this stuff and correcting the crap they pass off as history and "tradition" (/rant)

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          #5
          Priceless.

          Originally posted by judoka_uk View Post
          Shoubo was the MCMAP of ancient China and was considered distinct from the military sport of wrestling – jueli. It was considered a core military skill - bing jiqiao – as a method ‘to practice hand and foot movements, facilitate use of weapons, and organize for victory in offense or defence.’
          Jiao li/jueli was the predecessor of Shuai jiao according to what I have read, but I could never find much on it except that it was taught to Zhou soldiers.
          Last edited by W. Rabbit; 4/19/2011 11:08pm, .
          '�I am no advocate of passivity,� Coffin Mott said in an 1860 speech. �Quakerism, as I understand it, does not mean quietism. The early Friends were agitators; disturbers of the peace; and were more obnoxious in their day to charges, which are now so freely made, than we are.�'

          My Glossary: https://www.bullshido.net/forums/sho...d.php?t=129294

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            #6
            Impressive. Keep going.

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              #7
              Originally posted by W. Rabbit View Post
              Jiao li/jueli was the predecessor of Shuai jiao according to what I have read, but I could never find much on it except that it was taught to Zhou soldiers.
              Well I can't answer that question, I suspect that it is unlikely that there is an unbroken line of teaching and technique from the two Zhou dynasties to modern Shuai jiao, though.

              What may be of note is this etching that I used in my post which shows a military wrestling match in 1884 and looks, from the uniforms and techniques to be something similar to Shuai Jiao.
              Originally posted by judoka_uk View Post
              An illustration of military wrestling practice in 1884

              [What leapt out at me, is that if you look closely you can see the artist has made a distinction between those wearing white belts and those wearing dark coloured belts. Indicative of a ‘dan’ grade system? Or just a way of differentiating practitioners? There also appears to be some groundwork with one figure playing half guard(?)]
              Also I'm interested in what's going on here:


              Is this evidence of teh secret Gong Fu grappling or just two guys having fallen over whilst doing stand up grappling.

              I'll try and finish off and post the rest later, but I'm off to scotland over the easter weekend and the scots aren't allowed the internet so won't be posting for a bit.
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                #8
                Originally posted by judoka_uk View Post

                Also I'm interested in what's going on here:


                Is this evidence of teh secret Gong Fu grappling or just two guys having fallen over whilst doing stand up grappling.
                Most likely fallen over during throw. I can think of several popular shuai jiao throws that end in similar positions (inner hooking, lower inner hooking, etc etc)

                Comment


                  #9
                  Nice thread
                  Haven't read something this good since the thread "Disputing Zhang San Feng, and other Myths of "Internal Martial Arts"

                  Keep up the good work

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Nice work. Re: The groundwork question.

                    I have done two different styles of CMA (Wing Chun and Tai Chi) neither of which practice the groundwork.

                    When I studied Wing Chun it was under a Chinese man from Hong Kong, and he told me that chinese martial arts didn't have groundwork because 'rolling around on the floor' was seen as 'dirty fighting', a bit like the way pulling hair or kicking people in the balls was seen by many in the west.
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                      #11
                      bump

                      Bump for posterity. Also making sure I'm subscribed.
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                        #12
                        Yeh sorry guys. I need to get on top of this. I'm busy at the moment, I will try and get round to dealing with it soon.

                        One of my major problems is that I think that I'm probably missing relevant material because I'm not familiar with the mythology around the issue.

                        Is there a central source I can go to, to get acquainted with the major myths/ figures around the Shaolin monastery?

                        Also the 60 pages of material is long even for an academic article.

                        Maybe it would be better if I just figure out a way to edit it and post it for you guys to pick apart.
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                          #13
                          Shaolin Mythical figures? I'm not sure I can help much in that regard, but you could always start with someone like Sagacious Lu..

                          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lu_Zhishen


                          Sagacious Lu uproots a willow tree, From "Water Margin"
                          Last edited by Colin; 5/14/2011 6:12pm, .
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                            #14
                            Originally posted by judoka_uk
                            One of my major problems is that I think that I'm probably missing relevant material because I'm not familiar with the mythology around the issue.

                            Is there a central source I can go to, to get acquainted with the major myths/ figures around the Shaolin monastery?
                            I'd start with Shahar, Meir. The Shaolin monastery : history, religion, and the Chinese martial arts. University of Hawaii Press. 2008

                            Here is a preview: http://books.google.es/books?id=KiNE...page&q&f=false

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Very nice essay. Possibly the connection between those forms and Taiji could be used to further investigate the origins of taiji, I've heard some different stories.

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