how can Ninjutsu schools be hindered or dis-commended

[shinobi b]

There are many schools in the world claiming to teach Ninjutsu, people of a bujinkan budo taijutsu background claim that there style is the only authentic one, my main question is why?. Ninjutsu is an ancient art in which jujitsu ties in with.some ronin(rogue samurai) were also ninja, some styles may use exotic weapons such as shuto,kusari gama, yari, bisento or naginata but those weapons other than shuto were used by the samurai, karate students, and their techniques were passed down through some styles and to some teachers who later realized that the art that they learned was ninjutsu or basically the same as ninjutsu.

I studied seisuikan ninjutsu style based on techniques of jujitsu and ninjutsu

[It is Fake]

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=96931

Read this carefully. C-A-R-E-F-U-L-L-Y. It is specifically speaking to posters like you.

[shinobi b]

i have read it and it does state a point that you do need information to back up your claims, but my question is how can you prove if a style is de credible or "fake" if you cannot trace any thing from it, meaning pass history, even if you find who your teacher's sensei how can you trace it and under stand its lineage?

[It is Fake]

It was explained, in the FAQ, that there are these things called scrolls. The argument you are building fails because, when it comes to Martial Arts, the Japanese were meticulous record keepers. That's half the issue with ninjitsu right now, as it was it was explained in the other thread that has you up in arms.

Please do me a favor and quit making up words. You are on the internet a dictionary is just a click away.

[shinobi b]

i'm actually trying to state a question while making the argument but due to your semi opposed your not seeing what i'm trying to ask. I'm asking what if the history of the martial art is shrouded ? what if you can find the a piece of the lineage then it just stops? how can i prove weather or not the martial art is originated from japan 1500s........ if i only know my teachers teacher.

[Styygens]

i have read it and it does state a point that you do need information to back up your claims, but my question is how can you prove if a style is de credible or "fake" if you cannot trace any thing from it, meaning pass history, even if you find who your teacher's sensei how can you trace it and under stand its lineage?

You need a course in how historians do research. Even a good course in genealogy would help.

There are documents (wills, deeds, tax records, business ledgers, medical records, memberships, professional licenses, etc.) and there are other kinds of artifacts (photographs, grave stones, monuments, artwork, items owned by the estate, etc.) that help create a historical record that can be traced. The Japanese culture is excellent about maintaining both kinds of material.

You also need some background in logical argument. A good Philosophy 101 should help.

Generally speaking, in a formal argument, the burden of proof is on the person who makes the claim. As I stated to you in another thread, if you make the claim that something is true, it is up to you to cite supporting evidence. Otherwise it is within the rules of argument for me to dismiss your claim out of hand. If you provide evidence we can discuss its merits.

[It is Fake]

but my question is how can you prove if a style is de credible or "fake" if you cannot trace any thing from it, meaning pass history, even if you find who your teacher's sensei how can you trace it and under stand its lineage?

I'm asking what if the history of the martial art is shrouded ? what if you can find the a piece of the lineage then it just stops? how can i prove weather or not the martial art is originated from japan 1500s........ if i only know my teachers teacher.

These are two different questions.

I'm asking what if the history of the martial art is shrouded ? what if you can find the a piece of the lineage then it just stops? how can i prove weather or not the martial art is originated from japan 1500s........ if i only know my teachers teacher.

I just told you. So, no, changing it to shrouded means nothing. One piece of old lineage,even broken, shrouded, or whatever reasoning you can supply is proof. Of course, it would have to be verified by outside researchers. That would go a hell of a long way to establishing a martial art. Even if it disappeared, you can say at the least it really existed. No, it doesn't prove the modern art is the same since there is a gap but, it establishes a start.

[Rock Ape]

I studied seisuikan ninjutsu style based on techniques of jujitsu and ninjutsu

That statement right there is as about as erroneous as you can get.

Explain to me what "jujutsu" is exactly, then apply that model to everything within what you call Ninjutsu which is based on empty handed fighting. I think you'll find they are pretty much one and the same.

So, if you were actually talking about a particular style of jujutsu which has then been incorporated into something else and morphed into "Seisuikan Ninjutsu" What were the base styles called ?

[dougguod]

how can i prove weather or not the martial art is originated from japan 1500s........ if i only know my teachers teacher.

This guy
www.bluelifekarateandfitness.com/about-blue-life.html
http://southorange.patch.com/users/bl1461

purports to be the founder of seisuikan ninjutsu. Given that he appears to be neither 500 years old nor Japanese, I'm going to say that, no, your art isn't "originated from japan 1500s".

[Rock Ape]

This guy
www.bluelifekarateandfitness.com/about-blue-life.html
http://southorange.patch.com/users/bl1461

purports to be the founder of seisuikan ninjutsu. Given that he appears to be neither 500 years old nor Japanese, I'm going to say that, no, your art isn't "originated from japan 1500s".

To the OP.

Forget I asked those questions. I've lost interest in this thread.

My advice.. Find another martial arts school and one which isn't based on Ninjitsu.

[It is Fake]

This guy
www.bluelifekarateandfitness.com/about-blue-life.html
http://southorange.patch.com/users/bl1461

purports to be the founder of seisuikan ninjutsu. Given that he appears to be neither 500 years old nor Japanese, I'm going to say that, no, your art isn't "originated from japan 1500s".

Oh wow /end thread.

[goodlun]

This guy
www.bluelifekarateandfitness.com/about-blue-life.html
http://southorange.patch.com/users/bl1461

purports to be the founder of seisuikan ninjutsu. Given that he appears to be neither 500 years old nor Japanese, I'm going to say that, no, your art isn't "originated from japan 1500s".

The way I read that was he started Blue life Katate and fitness. He happens to have a 7th or 9th degree black belt in seisuikan ninjutsu depending on which link you read.

[dougguod]

The way I read that was he started Blue life Katate and fitness. He happens to have a 7th or 9th degree black belt in seisuikan ninjutsu depending on which link you read.

I considered that interpretation too. But, because I could find absolutely no references to either seisuikan or chi fu kai aside from the above links (and this thread, of course) I decided I wasn't going to give him the benefit of the doubt. I now leave it to others to contact "Shihan" Howard and hear the inevitable story of the mysterious little Japanese man who taught him,and only him, the rare seisuikan family style before vanishing from the face of the Earth. :ninja7:

[Styygens]

I now leave it to others to contact "Shihan" Howard and hear the inevitable story of the mysterious little Japanese man who taught him,and only him, the rare seisuikan family style before vanishing from the face of the Earth. :ninja7:

I was kinda hoping to hear the story of seisuikan ninjutsu.

I figured it would either be LOL-worthy, or present an opportunity to disabuse shinobi b of misconceptions, or both.

But now I doubt he'll be back...

[It is Fake]

I was kinda hoping to hear the story of seisuikan ninjutsu.

I figured it would either be LOL-worthy, or present an opportunity to disabuse shinobi b of misconceptions, or both.

But now I doubt he'll be back...

Just wait two years he'll be back.