Fang Shen Do: Sordid History

[Sam Browning]

My comments are made based on how courts in the United States work. I doubt it is much different in Canada. You first obtain the name of the case and its number. The number is used to store the file and the clerk will ask you for it when you go to the court in which the document is stored. Unless the file was sealed it should be public record. I would advise calling the court first and confirming that they actually have the file in qurestion, what their copying policys are, and how much they charge. For example if you find there are 50 pages in the file, and they charge a dollar a page you know you will have to pay $50 for the entire file or you can pick and chose which documents you want copied in person. Then I would go there in person to the court where the file is with a good book as they process the order. If you just send in a check they may screw off for a couple months. Some courts however may refuse to process your order as you wait so find out ahead of time.

For legal novices though it is more expensive it makes more sense to copy the entire file so three months later you don't realize that you are missing an important document you should have obtained.

Transcripts can be ordered in Connecticut for $3.50 a page, so you really have to know if a particular hearing is worth the cost. Arguments involving testimony of a party may be worth it, transcripts of lawyers arguing with each other about the law are probably not worth the money. If you have the name of the case, and the date of the hearing and hopefully the name of the judge (it would be on any order entered that day) you can contact the court reporter who covered that hearing that day and ask her how much it would cost to order a transcript. What most people don't know is that court reporters will also take a partial transcript order. Say for a particular witness who testified. That may save you some money.

[Askari]

I have heard that there are a number of people involved in the Fang Shen Do "Family" that have criminal records. Can anyone shed more light on this?

[Sam Browning]

Just be careful about the allegations you make. Saying someone has a criminal record when they don't is a good way to end up in court.

[Askari]

Hi Samuel,

Exactly, if someone can lead us to public records, even if they remember it as having been in a newspaper, we can find it than put it up online. Or if they were the person who was on the receiving end of the criminal activity that resulted in a conviction.

At this time all I have are stories from people that may or may not have any basis in reality.

[Sam Browning]

Then communicate that information via pm if you are uncertain about it.

[andrewa]

Fang Shen Do History Project

This thread is getting more and more interesting. To get copies of these lawsuits (i.e. civil claims) you need to know the county where the lawsuit was filed. I would assume that this would be the county of Ottawa-Carleton. If this is correct you simply have to go the civil suit/small claims court counter at the courthouse on Elgin St. If you enter the courthouse thru the Elgin St entrance you'll see the elevators in front of you. Stay on this floor and walk towards the right. At the end of the hallway you'll be at the civil suit counter. The clerk can help you search for your file on the computer and then get the file for you. Be forewarned, it can get very busy here so it's best to arrive early (8:30am-9:00am). Also to get the file you have to pay up front $28, whether the file has what you want or not. You also must leave a piece of id with the clerk such as a driver's license. Now having done all this you can't take the file outside of the immediate area. There is a photocopier there at .25 a copy so bring lots of change. I also suggest a notebook and pen for notes if necessary. Are we having fun yet?? The clerk will provide certified copies for you at $2(???) a page which is too costly I would think. I used to do this occasionally for a former employer many years ago and I don't think much has changed since then. I assume that this information is still current although you may wish to bring some extra cash in case the costs went up. I don't mind doing this myself but it will be 2-3 weeks before I can make time for this. Just to clarify I don't believe we in Canada have any online way of viewing the court file at the moment other than the limited info we've found to date.

[TKD Black Belt]

Not to be a wet blanket but these three cases seem to be breach of contract issues and the sums mentioned are most likely start points before the judge would likley whittle (can I use whittle in regards to legal proceedings?) the amounts in question down to legal fees and sums owing.

Doesn't seem to be anything more sinister than very aggressive business practice not unlike what you see in the restaurant industry.

TKD

[Askari]

TKD, I see your point in that many legitimate businesses can get caught up in legal hastles too.

I've heard now that when buying a Fang Shen Do franchise the purchaser is only allowed to own 49% of the operation, and must have a Sifu as a sponsor who owns 51%.

Eventually they raise up their own pleb who they send out selling the new franchise to their student, thus expanding the number of schools.

Patenaude of course retains the right to revoke without cause any franchise, and he is thier Sijo, so they must trust him to be fair about these things.

Sounds like basicly a pyramid scheme, but perhaps these breach of contract cases have something to do with that. There may be fodder for our mill in the transcripts of some of these legal proceedings.

[Stringfellow]

There is a photocopier there at .25 a copy so bring lots of change. I also suggest a notebook and pen for notes if necessary. Are we having fun yet?? The clerk will provide certified copies for you at $2(???) a page which is too costly I would think.

Another option: bring a decent digital camera and just take pictures of each page. I've done this in the past. If you have even lighting and enough megapixels, you can get a pretty good quality image. Certainly good enough to OCR or transcribe
.

[andrewa]

Several years ago (early to mid 90's I think) I saw a magazine with Mr. Patenaude on the cover. He was holding a broken cigarette towards the camera. The jist of the article as I recall was to promote some type of 'stop-smoking' program. I'm pretty sure that the magazine was called "Ottawa Life". This magazine is still published in Ottawa so if someone wanted to they could could contact the magazine to see if they have an archive to copy the article. However, I doubt the article would reveal anything new as far as this forum is concerned. What could be more fruitful is to contact the Ottawa Citizen or Sun to see if they have an archive that could be publically accessed.

[Askari]

AndrewA, I think you are on to something, between all of us we can narrow this down. Keep seaching those obscure sites for us and coming up with ideas.

I think this thread now officially needs the Sijo Jacques Patinaude seal of approval (must be read with a Monty Burns voice):

[TKD Black Belt]

I'm sorry this thread has value but I'm having much more fun practicing my phantom elbows as seen in the videos!

TKD

[dictionary69]

When looking in the archives do you have to log in to get the info? If so you would be know if other people look into it if lawsuits are concerned? It seems to me that you are flirting with legal action. As for this stringfellow he could be held accountable for making false statements and trying to discredit an organization that gives to charities and help in any way in there community. It's too bad that good people have to read this kind of stuff assuming that they do but they must have better things to do I'm sure. Think about what you say sometime because it can come back to you. Cheers

[dictionary69]

What is the qualifications of mr.Demiles then? What is the qualifications of Bruce Lee? Does this make a difference? We're they good martial artists because they are not certified? Those of you that are still members why are you still at the school if you think that things are so bad? One good thing I read on here was the fact that Therrien was a good school, holy shit please if you saying that fsd is a mc dojo and that one isn't well you are blind people.... Cheers

[Askari]

Dictionary69, welcome back.

Last time I checked reading the newspaper as well as reading transcripts of legal proceedings was completely legal and anyone could do so.

As well the information in the newspaper etc is public record and then can be reproduced anywhere for any purpose.

Oh, we are actually saying the Fang Shen Do is bullshido, that is it appears to have cult like aspects. A McDojo is one dedicated to just making money. Slightly different.