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Fang Shen Do: Sordid History

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  • Cdnronin
    replied
    $199.00 for a kubaton class? Unless it includes juggling 3 or more kubatons at the same time, I'll pass. Everything worthwhile to do with a kubaton can be shown in 20 minutes, max

    Leave a comment:


  • TKD Black Belt
    replied
    Damn, $500 for a three day seminar with sJP! That's almost a steal unless you realize you can train with UFC/Pride/Sport Figh/AFC/IFL/ADCC (am I missing anything?) ranked and tested fighters for less than that! Hell some gyms will only charge you the drop in fee to get on the matt. I've heard a Gracie club in CA is like that, regardless of who's teaching.

    TKD

    Leave a comment:


  • Doctor X
    replied
    Well, "Wing" is Chinese, "Do" is Japanese and . . . and . . . and . . . he recognizes India on a map if it is labeled.

    --J.D.

    Leave a comment:


  • PeterPantsless
    replied
    "I have studied and mastered many forms of Chinese, Indian, and Japanese martial arts"

    Have you Jacques? Please elaborate. From where I'm standing, it looks like you just changed the name of Wing Chun Do, to Fang Shen Do. :headbang: Enlighten me.

    Leave a comment:


  • TheDingo
    replied
    Originally posted by Askari
    Dingo, those prices are amazing. And is that man giving me the finger?

    That says it all.
    Actually when I was handed the calender I was told to double the prices on the back -- didn't know if the person was joking or not.....

    Leave a comment:


  • Askari
    replied
    Dingo, those prices are amazing. And is that man giving me the finger?
    Originally posted by sJP
    You wont experience what you're
    learning in class anywhere else
    That says it all.

    Leave a comment:


  • TheDingo
    replied
    Calender

    Here's the front of the calendar
    Click image for larger version

Name:	calendar_front.jpg
Size:	47.5 KB
ID:	4320772


    with closer scan of the text
    Click image for larger version

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ID:	4320774

    and the seminar list from the back.
    Click image for larger version

Name:	calender_sem.jpg
Size:	64.7 KB
ID:	4320773

    Doesn't list the glass walking (occurred Feb), or the firewalk in May. (taken from the individual month lists within -- may be more but I haven't gone though it).
    Last edited by TheDingo; 5/10/2006 6:22pm, .

    Leave a comment:


  • PeterPantsless
    replied
    I remember the add for the Anti-aging seminar. It boasted, "Immortality may be possible!"

    Cripes!

    Does anyone have copies of the FSD calendars? They are pure gold, and name and describe all of the seminars. It is really a time-table of disaster.

    Leave a comment:


  • Haru_the_larger
    replied
    I have only just started reading through this thread. I am only up to page 11. I saw the post about sJP with the broken cigarette. He had business cards in the Catherine Street location that claimed he could help people stop smoking. THere were many other claims on the card but I can not remember them off the top of my head. Perhaps if there is a current FSD student reading this you could pick up one of those cards and share with us the wonderous feats that sJP can do. They were all using the neuro-linguitic programming techniques that he supposedly has.

    Among the many seminars that are offered through FSD there was one that was supposed to help you to live longer. I believe it was called the anti-aging seminar. Sijo was also supposed to be creating a nutrition seminar, though I do not know if he ever did that or not. I spoke with three people who attended the anti-aging seminar. They were VERY upset. One guy called it the biggest waste of money he had ever been a part of. The seminar boiled down to one thing, according to the three guys: breathe more. That was it.

    Sijo has also had women's self-defence seminars, road rage seminars (what to do when someone attacks you while youa re in your car from what I have seen), and was supposed to be developing a seminar to eliminate back pain.

    I hope this stuff fits in with the history thread.

    Leave a comment:


  • Askari
    replied
    Quebec Corporations Database

    This is a long post, but provides a lot of information. Anyone can verify at
    https://ssl.req.gouv.qc.ca/slc0140_eng.htmlIMMATRICULATION : 1996-08-121996-08-28 1996-08-1221ST CENTURY KUNG-FU 1996-08-12 EN VIGUEURIMMATRICULATION : 1996-08-121996-08-2821ST CENTURY KUNG-FU 1996-08-12 EN VIGUEUR

    Leave a comment:


  • Doctor X
    replied
    So you did my blue joke make you see red?

    --J.D.

    Leave a comment:


  • TKD Black Belt
    replied
    Since the good doctor seems to have misused red for blue I'll claim blue for my comments.:thumbsup:

    Originally posted by Doctor X
    10 characteristics of conspiracy theorists
    A useful guide by Donna Ferentes

    4. Fondness for certain stock phrases. These include Cicero's "cui bono?" (of which it can be said that Cicero understood the importance of having evidence to back it up) and Conan Doyle's "once we have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however unlikely, must be the truth". What these phrases have in common is that they are attempts to absolve themselves from any responsibility to produce positive, hard evidence themselves: you simply "eliminate the impossible" (i.e. say the official account can't stand scrutiny) which means that the wild allegation of your choice, based on "cui bono?" (which is always the government) is therefore the truth.

    A little more difficult since cui bono?--"to what good" fallacy is not used much . . . nor is the appeal to Conan Doyle! However, they do use "stock phrases" to attack detractors as evidences by posts HERE.
    - Well I believe 'Enhanced' is a stock phrase on one of the Siju's (not to pick on an esteemed forum member). Further to this, in a circular fashion, they have evoked Cicero in the idead that FSD somehow contains a secret that is a product of a number of steps. Membership to Black Belt Club to Camps to Ownership of a club. At each level the promise exists that one's stock will raise in the group as you progress. Simply put although the truism of 'evidence required' is somewhat sidestepped when you are able to create the illusion of truth by virtue of membership you make it unattainable to the regular person. Its like the jokes that require the person who was just tricked to recruit the next set of victims.

    Originally posted by Doctor X
    5. Inability to employ or understand Occam's Razor. Aided by the principle in 4. above, conspiracy theorists never notice that the small inconsistencies in the accounts which they reject are dwarfed by the enormous, gaping holes in logic, likelihood and evidence in any alternative account.

    A little more difficult, but notice the attempts to deny "shit sniffing" or document the MMA tornament triumphs claimed. VERY simple to document and prove . . . yet. . . .

    --J.D.
    - Once again I think a further development of point 4 illustrates how well this applies. You can also bolster this point by using point 8. I believe (and I'm not a lawyer) that this is where the burden of proof shifts. Denying the existance of an event in the face of evidence regardless of the weight of said evidence, does not prove the event didn't happen.

    Oh well, back to work.

    TKD

    Leave a comment:


  • Doctor X
    replied
    "Stolen" from poster nickterry who has been kicking the ass of a Holocaust Denier across ANOTHER BOARD [Boo. Hiss.--Ed.]. I see conspiracy theories such as HD a paradigm for crapolla--if you can rationalize that something this documented did not actually happen . . . rationalizing shit-sniffing is a minor achievement.

    The List is from the site: Urban75. My comments will be in Blue.

    10 characteristics of conspiracy theorists
    A useful guide by Donna Ferentes

    1. Arrogance. They are always fact-seekers, questioners, people who are trying to discover the truth: sceptics are always "sheep", patsies for Messrs Bush and Blair etc.

    We have certainly seen arrogance as a "sine qua non" of Bullshidoists such as FSD.

    2. Relentlessness. They will always go on and on about a conspiracy no matter how little evidence they have to go on or how much of what they have is simply discredited. (Moreover, as per 1. above, even if you listen to them ninety-eight times, the ninety-ninth time, when you say "no thanks", you'll be called a "sheep" again.) Additionally, they have no capacity for precis whatsoever. They go on and on at enormous length.

    Check!

    3. Inability to answer questions. For people who loudly advertise their determination to the principle of questioning everything, they're pretty poor at answering direct questions from sceptics about the claims that they make.

    This applies to the avoidance of embarrassing questions and an unwillingness to support claims such as, "I am t3h d34dly!" challenges.

    4. Fondness for certain stock phrases. These include Cicero's "cui bono?" (of which it can be said that Cicero understood the importance of having evidence to back it up) and Conan Doyle's "once we have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however unlikely, must be the truth". What these phrases have in common is that they are attempts to absolve themselves from any responsibility to produce positive, hard evidence themselves: you simply "eliminate the impossible" (i.e. say the official account can't stand scrutiny) which means that the wild allegation of your choice, based on "cui bono?" (which is always the government) is therefore the truth.

    A little more difficult since cui bono?--"to what good" fallacy is not used much . . . nor is the appeal to Conan Doyle! However, they do use "stock phrases" to attack detractors as evidences by posts HERE.

    5. Inability to employ or understand Occam's Razor. Aided by the principle in 4. above, conspiracy theorists never notice that the small inconsistencies in the accounts which they reject are dwarfed by the enormous, gaping holes in logic, likelihood and evidence in any alternative account.

    A little more difficult, but notice the attempts to deny "shit sniffing" or document the MMA tornament triumphs claimed. VERY simple to document and prove . . . yet. . . .

    6. Inability to tell good evidence from bad. Conspiracy theorists have no place for peer-review, for scientific knowledge, for the respectability of sources. The fact that a claim has been made by anybody, anywhere, is enough for them to reproduce it and demand that the questions it raises be answered, as if intellectual enquiry were a matter of responding to every rumour. While they do this, of course, they will claim to have "open minds" and abuse the sceptics for apparently lacking same.

    Just ask what is the evidence of martial applicability--be it for sparing, randori, throwdowns, competition, or t3h str33t.

    7. Inability to withdraw. It's a rare day indeed when a conspiracy theorist admits that a claim they have made has turned out to be without foundation, whether it be the overall claim itself or any of the evidence produced to support it. Moreover they have a liking (see 3. above) for the technique of avoiding discussion of their claims by "swamping" - piling on a whole lot more material rather than respond to the objections sceptics make to the previous lot.

    Consider how long these threads run.

    8. Leaping to conclusions. Conspiracy theorists are very keen indeed to declare the "official" account totally discredited without having remotely enough cause so to do. Of course this enables them to wheel on the Conan Doyle quote as in 4. above. Small inconsistencies in the account of an event, small unanswered questions, small problems in timing of differences in procedure from previous events of the same kind are all more than adequate to declare the "official" account clearly and definitively discredited. It goes without saying that it is not necessary to prove that these inconsistencies are either relevant, or that they even definitely exist.

    Consider all of the claims that Their Style is better than all other styles. Consider the unsubstantiated claims. Consider the attacks on those who left the cult--"they were pussies!"

    9. Using previous conspiracies as evidence to support their claims.This may seem to not apply, but consider how defenders try to smear the board by attacking "Bullshidoists"--as in the work done by participants HERE just simply cannot be trusted. This applies more to the MAP apologists.

    10. It's always a conspiracy. And it is, isn't it? No sooner has the body been discovered, the bomb gone off, than the same people are producing the same old stuff, demanding that there are questions which need to be answered, at the same unbearable length. Because the most important thing about these people is that they are people entirely lacking in discrimination. They cannot tell a good theory from a bad one, they cannot tell good evidence from bad evidence and they cannot tell a good source from a bad one. And for that reason, they always come up with the same answer when they ask the same question.

    Bullshido just has it out for FSD. . . .

    The same errors in critical thinking that result in conspiracy theories leads to cults like this, belief in bullshit, and support of the Yankees.

    Tragic . . . all of it. . . .

    --J.D.

    Leave a comment:


  • Doctor X
    replied
    TKD:

    Thanks!

    I doubt that Ripper will be back to answer lubomir's questions. The "shit-sniffing" is typical of any system designed to humiliate participants. The humiliations serves a number of purposes:
    • 1. Weeds out doubters.
      2. Empowers the leaders.
      3. Solidifies believers--believe they are "tough" and part of "the Chosen."
      • A. If they will do this--sniff shit--they will do a lot more like contribute $$
        B. Believers want to be leaders to do the same to lesser-ranks.

      4. Makes leaving more difficult--after all of the humiliation it is much harder to admit one has been duped.
      5. Drives the assumption that the Leaders have a higher understanding--that you cannot figure out the significant of shit-sniffing, is your deficiency


    And with that . . . I think I will "borrow" a list of "signs of a conspiracy theory," because I think they may well apply to a cult like this.

    --J.D.

    Leave a comment:


  • lubomir
    replied
    ripper

    Well, this ripper-kid is not what he claims to be. 16-year-olds don't write like that!
    Again: the shit-sniffing happened only once, at the 2005 training camp in August, Friday evening in the barn. Martin went out the rear entrance (that's were you end up when you do the "barn exercise", anyone remember?) to get the bucket with the dog shit. ALL participants were there (about 80), including Linda and Christine Patenaude. However, JP was so insecure about the whole thing that he dismissed it afterwards and said he will never do it again. Ripper, if you are what you claim you are, ask your instructor, most of them were there. Let us know what school you are from and I may be able to give you some names of participants from your school or even your seafoo. In serious cults like EST, stuff like this was used to crush people. But since JP basically tries to copy stuff that is beyond his intellectual reach, it ends up being just ridiculous. It is kind of the Eastern-Ontario-trailer-park-boy-white-trash-version, just like the Patenaudes have tried to rip of Asian traditions of martial arts to enrich themselves. You may be upset because your instructors are perhaps nice guys. Yes, but they too got screwed by the Poopinodes, although most of them haven't realized it yet. And: they Ps love guys like you, because they want to get young kids hooked so that they buy one of their franchises. FYI: check the forum what they did to the guy who thought he owned the school in Belleville. It is all about money.

    Leave a comment:

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