Originally posted by Cdnronin
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CdnRonin - it could well be that other martial arts did have a role in somehow shaping "his" system, but I never saw any evidence ie: black belt certificates etc, you would think that they would be on display to give credibility to himself and FSD. -
PeterPantsless - you are forgiven, not being Bullshido savvy yet, I was impressed that you knew I was watching this thread. I can guarantee you that there are many more exFSD students following this thread, they just haven't joined Bullshido yet.Originally posted by PeterPantsless
The name changes I believe in the early years were due to the financial failure of their martial arts business but the later "FSD" is definitely about them putting their stamp on their supposed style.Comment
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Red Dragon, do you remember anything about Patenaude supposedly teaching Silat at one time?Comment
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Every morning I get up and I make a delicious breakfast of (what I think is a Canadian classic) Red River cereal, now with flax. It is essentially oatmeal but made with multigrains and what not. The thing is since I was a little kid (over 30 years now) its always been called Red River cereal. I wouldn't be able to find it in the grocery store if they changed the name.
Anyways, my point is this, WHY THE HELL DO PEOPLE KEEP TAKING CLASSES IN A STYLE THAT CHANGES IT'S NAME MORE OFTEN THEN MOST OF THE STUDENTS GET LAID!!!!!!!!!!
Just a question, sorry if it comes across a bit blunt, but I can be like that sometimes.
TKDComment
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I went down to the library and found an interesting article in an old "Ottawa Citizen" from 1996. Thing is the only version I have is electronic and not a scan. It also interviewed a number of local clubs. I'll only quote the Fang Shen Do portion. Here it is:
The bolds are added by me.TI: The boom in self-defence: Women and Children are leading the charge to local martial arts schools
SO: The Ottawa Citizen, December 26, 1996, Final Edition, p. B4
LP: The lure of becoming a Steven Seagal or a Michelle Yeoh is appealing to more Ottawa-area residents.
Local Martial arts schools have seen their clientele jump during hte past 20 years from a few students to several hundred, and all report a dramatic increase in the number of children and women.
... ... ...
Kung Fu
The martial art Bruce Lee turned into a pop craze in the '70s with the wing chun style was first developed by a Buddhist nun more then 100 years ago. An original student of Lee's, Sifu Jacques Patenaude, has been teaching a stree-style of wing chun for 17 years in the Ottawa area, there are four schools, in Vanier, on Merivale Road, in Casselman and in Orleans.
Modern wing chun teaches how to fight in five ranges: punching, kicking, trapping, grappling and weapons training. Weapons in martial arts are never firearms. Instruction is given on how to wield a 1.8 metre (seven-foot) staff or two 50 centimetre kali sticks.
One element that Patenaude has retained from the original system is the co-ordinated attack and defence strategy. Unlike judo or karate, kung-fu students do not throw their opponents onto mats, and most wear shoes to make their training as realistic as possible.
The system provides a hard cardiovascular workout, which explains why most of Patenaude's students are in their 20s. Power meditations and an intense warm-up involving yogic and breathing techniques also are included.
The parts I particularily like are where he claimed to be an original student of Bruce Lee and that carrying a seven foot staff somehow makes his art for the str3et.
Also the note about the age of the students. Generally a club that only has 20 something males in it raises my concern that there is something suspicious here.
This article also confirms the 1979 start of Jacques Patinaude as an instructor. Directly during the time that DeMile was not certifying anyone to teach Wing Chun Do.Last edited by Askari; 3/25/2006 7:18am, .Comment
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Silat Not!
JP did claim to know Silat and did advertise as such, but I never saw any of it during my time there. From what other ex-students have told me he was asked to remove that claim from his advertising or website, but I am not sure which one. On one of his videos he does show one technique from Silat.Originally posted by CdnroninComment
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Red dragon, I very much appreciate your answers, as I'm sure others do as well. If you feel you could expand on your answers, or on any other knowledge you have on FSD and the Patenaude, please feel free.Originally posted by red-dragonComment
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Oh, they don't throw their students onto mats.
How very droll.
I will avoid the obvious "or at all" roffle.
Or not.Comment
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Fang Shen Do History Project
Ok kids it's time for me to jump in here. I searched "Patenaude" on a website that's operated by the Financial Post (fpinfomart.ca). They have a Commerial Law search feature that's found under the "additional databases" section. In Ontario I found that on March 10, 2005 judgements were rendered in three cases where a "Syo J. Patenaude" sued three separate entities. The three entities were "Ottawa South Kung Fu et al", "Dean Academy of Kung Fu et al" and "Patenaude Kung Fu et al". (I assume that the last entity was one of the franchised operations.) Bear in mind that this database is for lawsuits involving commercial entities only so this may not be all the litigation Mr. Patenaude has been involved in. Furthermore I'm not sure how far this database goes back. As far as I know it may contain only very recent information. Now I can go to the courthhouse on Elgin St to get copies of these judements but it costs $28 to get the file from the clerk for each separate case. I would then have to photocopy the file. Before I proceed I was wondering if anyone had more info on these three lawsuits. This info would allow me to zero in on one case only. By the way I only searched "Patenaude" and "Fang" (which brought up nothing). There may be other commercial entities controlled by Mr. Patenaude.Comment
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Nice work!Comment
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AndrewA, Excellent work I would be interested in seeing any and all court documents related to Fang Shen Do.
Which part of Fpinfomart did you find this in?
Edited to add: my bad, it can be found in the corporate database area.
Patenaude is the defended in all listed cases, so this is people suing him.....
An OCR of them scanned in would make for a good permanent record online of their activities.
I also notice that there is no listed Canadian Corporation called "Fang Shen Do" Should we buy it and set Bullshido as the controlling interest?Last edited by Askari; 3/26/2006 2:32pm, .Comment
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In the other thread they talked about how a certain Dean got expulsed of the group and started his own kung-fu club... you most certainly have something here andrewa!Comment
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I've heard that there are some interesting transcripts of Jacques Patenaude's behaviour in small claims court as well. So far I am lacking a good online resource for small claims court records, we are going to have to rely on OCR'd versions of these documents to further our investigation.
I guess the best way to authenticate will be to scan in the headers from the court records to demonstrate we are putting up verifiable datea.Comment
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Great job, andrewa! Between these civil cases and the allegations of criminal activities, there's sure be plenty of information locked up in court transscripts/decisions/etc.
Anyone know of a resource that can tell us how to get at this information? E.g., any lawyer types out there?Comment
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Lawsuits
I checked out that stuff from FPinfomart. There are three records, as follows:
Plaintiff SYO J. PATENAUDE
Record Type LEGAL
Action STATEMENT OF CLAIM
Reason CONTRACT
Amount ($) 250,000.00
Court ONTARIO COURT
OTTAWA
Court File Number 05CV30458
Filing Date MAR 10, 2005
Credit Report # XT1254
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Syo J. Patenaude
vs. Dean Academy Of Kung-Fu/Etal
Plaintiff SYO J. PATENAUDE
Defendant DEAN ACADEMY OF KUNG-FU/ETAL
OTTAWA
ON
Record Type LEGAL
Action STATEMENT OF CLAIM
Reason CONTRACT
Amount ($) 250,000.00
Court ONTARIO COURT
OTTAWA
Court File Number 05CV30458
Filing Date MAR 10, 2005
Credit Report # XS9083
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Syo J. Patenaude
vs. Patenaude Kung-Fu/Etal
Plaintiff SYO J. PATENAUDE
Defendant PATENAUDE KUNG-FU/ETAL
OTTAWA
ON
Record Type LEGAL
Action STATEMENT OF CLAIM
Reason CONTRACT
Amount ($) 250,000.00
Court ONTARIO COURT
OTTAWA
Court File Number 05CV30458
Filing Date MAR 10, 2005
Credit Report # DZ4517
I notice that the court file numbers are the same in each case, so it looks like there's just the one lawsuit.Last edited by Stringfellow; 3/26/2006 5:49pm, .Comment
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