Fang Shen Do: Sordid History

[PeterPantsless]

About the Fang Shen Do Cult.
In all the years I was a member, I never felt like I was in a cult. I never thought it was out of place to bow to my instructor, and I still don't. Also, if we all echoed the instructor's count during drills or exercises, it was to create an atmosphere, a unity. The energy in the gym during these exercices was simply amazing. Fang Shen Do is closer to being a family than a cult.

Most of the information on these threads is from first hand accounts, from former members, like myself.

It was never the loud counting in unison, that made me feel like FSD was a cult. It was more things like, the hero worship, the breaking arrows, the fire walking, the bowing, (in class or outside of it), the lack of contact with any of the MA world, the degradation of other systems, the manditory testimonials, high costs, and general bizzare bullshit, weirdo instructors, pressuring you to go to "Focus on results", seminars, "It worked for me! I now have two businesses!", and every part of FSD that nad NOTHING to do with martial arts. You did not have to hit all the seminars to witness it either. The more videos they put out, the more evident it was.

That being said, I am not trying to debunk your opinion, and I am glad that you had a positive experience. I just wanted to share that the cult feelings were not just invented by persons, outside FSD.

Speaking of cult. I think a great example of the FSD high pressure sales tactics, is in the "Dragon's Lair", articles on the member's section of the website. Anyone with login capabilities want to post that one?

[FSD Manager]

Answer on Tournament question

http://www.learnkung-fu.com/pressrel...tournament.htm

Here is the proof concerning the tournament question.

Official Newspaper articles to soon follow.

More questions will be answered professionally in the near future.

Thank you.


Management.

[BoardHitBack]

No time like the present

What qualifications does Jacques have to teach martial arts, whom did he get them from and when?

[broke]

No time like the present

What qualifications does Jacques have to teach martial arts, whom did he get them from and when?

look at the previous entries, specially the one posted by sifu bs on page 2

[BoardHitBack]

No mention of any qualifications, just lots of bullshit about how they are not important.

Here's the thing. They are.

So does he have any? If so what are they, who are they from and when and where did he get them?

[Spyda]

We know that Jacques Patinaude purchased a 10th dan ranking from these guys, he is listed about half way down:

Hold up, u mean ta tell me that rankings can be purchased? ummmm, isnt that fruad? and why is this place still open? you would think there would be some kinda protest from the MA community.

[Doctor X]

It surprised me.

I first learned of this crap a few years ago when a very senior practitioner was awarded very senior rank from . . . well . . . let me just say a guy less-than-skilled and not well-respected. At the time, the senior was still connected to the guy organizationally. Anyways, no one doubted that the senior deserved the honor, but many criticised him for it. So I talked with him about it. That is when he told me that "every week I thow away offers to join organizations in the US and get a 9th or even 10th degree!"

What?

He then explained the "circle-jerk" that is rank granting from different "fly-by-night" organizations in the US. The only reason he accepted the rank was because he was qualified by time-in-grade and he did not wish to publicly embarrass the idiot in front of a lot of people.

But, yes, you can basically find some stupid organization to print up a certificate. In the US, at least, there are no legal restriction. One can try to trade mark this or that organization--such as the Gracies--to prevent idiots from printing up "Soke of Gracie Kung-Fu" and other such nonsense. The US allows considerable latitude for organizations to police themselves. The problem is while I may not be able to claim "15th Dan" in any Uechi organization for example, and I suppose one could assess civil penalties for some sort of false advertising if I did--if that--NOTHING prevents me from running off a certificate for "15th Dan Uechi-Chuan, Soke."

These circle-jerk organizations also try to create protection for that "right to internally police." They can pretend they are a legitimate organization that "ensures quality." Since there is no official federal or--as far as I know--state regulation beyond paying fees for business licenses--what can one do to them?

So, what can the "MA community" do? Again, if I claim my "15th dan"--or what I really like to joking claim to have--"Junior Nanadan"--"Do not deserve it, did not earn it, but damn it I paid good money for it!"--in a Uechi organization, said organizations can denounce me, post denouncements, refuse to recognize students, et cetera. Other than that what? Again, I defer to a real lawyer, but I think the most a US organization can do is get me to stop claiming to "represent" them.

OF COURSE, I refuse to "enter a ring" or let students do so. THAT is a "quality control"--so when I claim my "BJJ Blackbelts" are "t3h d34dly"--when they get submitted by white belts you have some exposure. Unless I am dumb enough to claim rank I do not have in a legitimate organization with some sort of legal trademark, there is not much one can do.

Other than public exposure, which is what this site does.

--J.D.

[Spyda]

^^^^ ahhhhhh, understood. But come on ppl, look at his crap:

"Boxing:
Tony S. Allen, 6th Degree
Philip S. Porter, 6th Degree
Warren T. Mount, 5th Degree
Dennis E. Wheeler, 5th Degree
Isaac Obregon, 4th Degree"

WTF, what is he a 6th degree of? Is he walking around the gym claiming, "I have a 6th degree black glove. BWAAHAHAHAHA, I am t3h d34dly!" personaly, i would smack the shit outta anyone claiming to be a 6th degree in boxing.

[Doctor X]

HA!

Make sure you bow deeply to him before you do!

--J.D.

[Spyda]

lol, of course

[El-Wood]

^^^^ ahhhhhh, understood. But come on ppl, look at his crap:

"Boxing:
Tony S. Allen, 6th Degree
Philip S. Porter, 6th Degree
Warren T. Mount, 5th Degree
Dennis E. Wheeler, 5th Degree
Isaac Obregon, 4th Degree"

WTF, what is he a 6th degree of? Is he walking around the gym claiming, "I have a 6th degree black glove. BWAAHAHAHAHA, I am t3h d34dly!" personaly, i would smack the shit outta anyone claiming to be a 6th degree in boxing.

6th degree black jockstrap of course!

[TheDingo]

Light Reading

http://www.trafford.com/4dcgi/robots/04-2884.html#goto2

Well, dug this up about one of his books from the publisher web site....

"Sijo started his martial art training at the very young age of nine years old. He has earned black belts in other martial arts during his search for the truth about combat. His martial art background includes experience in Karate, Jiu-Jitsu, Wing Chun, Stick Fighting, and Boxing amongst other styles. "

That's ripe for comments -- especially earning multiple black belts in other martial arts (notice the plurel). But his creditentials have been quite discussed.

Now to add some new stuff to this thread....

Can anyone comment on this (first link edited to reflect right webpage):

http://www.amazon.fr/exec/obidos/ASI...552770-2661812
vs

http://www.amazon.com/gp/sitbv3/read...20#reader-link


Looks like sJP has written a book on the 1 and 3 inch power punch, as well as Demille. Has anyone read sJP's book on it? How does it compare to Demilles (other than being in French vs English).?

Couldn't find any reviews but noticed the "stiking" simularities between the covers (pun intended)

[Askari]

I just happen, by some fluke of chance to have both of those books.

Odd thing, they contain the same pictures, and some of the same text describing those pics. sJP's pics are re-shoots with him posing where Demille was BTW.

Except sJP claims that he is the blury guy in Demille's book.

In Demile's book there is a section called "Mind Development," followed by "Control and Dirction of your thoughts. In sJP's book there is a section called "Mental Development" followed by "Controlling your though Process."

You know what - I am now going to have to sit down and go through these. It basicly looks like sJP changed every third word and republished the same book.


There is even the same Paper striking Exercise and dorky picture of 3 guys falling backwards as the master makes a face.


I'd say its pretty much a case of complete plagerism.

[n00b]

You think DeMile could sue him?

[andrewa]

More Research

I went to the courthouse today on Elgin St. and got the following info. Basically it involved me using a computer in the courthouse to search for civil court matters involving Fang Shen Do. I searched under 'Patenaude' and found the following:

04-SC-087809-Daniel Castonquay vs. Christine Patenaude
04-SC-087036-Rick Sgabellone vs. Jacques & Linda Patenaude.

The '04' refers to the year the case was filed. The 'SC' refers to "Small Claims Court".

The place was a zoo with lots of people waiting to use the computer so I didn't linger. There were other "Patenaudes" on the system including the 'Dean Academy' case which has been discussed before on this thread. These other 'Patenaudes' had first names of 'Michel', 'Matthew', 'Mathieu' and 'Cynthia'. Without knowing if there are part of the Fang Shen Do family I won't post that info. Had I been better prepared today I might have gotten more info. Please note that I did not request the actual file or transcripts of these cases as time was not on my side. Perhaps another day......