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The Shaolin Creed, Bullshido or real?

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    The Shaolin Creed, Bullshido or real?

    I have heard this code several times in a couple ways in various martial art schools.

    Avoid rather than check.
    Check rather than hurt.
    Hurt rather than maim.
    Maim rather than kill.
    For all life is precious, nor can any be replaced;


    Like from Queen Mary University Aikido Club:

    Learn more ways to preserve, rather than destroy.

    * Avoid rather than check;
    * check rather than hurt;
    * hurt rather than maim;
    * maim rather than kill,

    for all life is precious nor can any be replaced.

    Now I googled his and found that Yoda in Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith 1/04 says:

    " Avoid rather than check.
    Check rather than hurt.
    Hurt rather than maim.
    Maim rather than kill. Kill rather than be killed.
    For all life is precious, nor can any be replaced."





    and to make matters worse, maybe Yoda got it from "Master Kan," on TV's Kung Fu, 1971:

    "Learn more ways to preserve rather than destroy.
    Avoid rather than check.
    Check rather than hurt.
    Hurt rather than maim.
    Maim rather than kill.
    For all life is precious nor can any be replaced."

    For further confusion, several sources say that this is from The Tao Te Ching, like "The quotes you see mentioned in my review has been taken from actual movie scripts from the old television series Kung Fu. The proverbs you heard the priests speaking were taken from the Tao Te Ching and translated by script writers so that western listeners could get a better understanding of the proverb. In short, the proverbs teach oneness with nature and all of the universe. Everything we do or experience is interconnected with nature and the universe." from http://www.epinions.com/user-review-...3A502C94-prod5

    The only problem with this is that the two translations of the Tao Te Ching that I skimmed have NOTHING at all written about maim rather than kill and so forth. Nada in the old Tao Te Ching mentions anything about it.

    Perhaps the closest yet I've found that has a link to actual Asia is from the online Wikipedia, "One is expected to show mercy to one's opponents, as instanced by a poem preserved in some of the T'ai Chi families said to be derived from the Shaolin temple: :"I would rather maim than kill :Hurt than maim :Intimidate than hurt :Avoid than intimidate." Though "some T'ai Chi families" and "said to be" are pretty soft to be a historical source.

    Kevin Pense of United Kempo Karate of Burlington, has on his home page what he calls the Shaolin Creed:

    SHAOLIN CREED
    "LEARN THE WAY TO PRESERVE RATHER THAN DESTROY AVOID RATHER THAN CHECK; CHECK RATHER HURT;HURT RATHER THAN MAIM; MAIM RATHER THAN KILL; FOR ALL LIFE IS PRECIOUS,NOR CAN ANY BE REPLACED"
    THIS IS THE WAY OF SHAOLIN!

    As far as I can find out, the creed comes down to being attributed to the Shaolin monks, where, who, and when is still unknown. All very nebulous so far.
    Last edited by patfromlogan; 12/10/2004 11:55am, .
    "Preparing mentally, the most important thing is, if you aren't doing it for the love of it, then don't do it." - Benny Urquidez

    #2
    As far as the Tao Te Ching is concerned I don't understand how people could believe it would say that. Philosophical taoism has no compunctions about killing when it is appropriate and what a taoist philosophy would have to do with a buddhist art is beyond me.

    Comment


      #3
      The concepts of martial virtues come from Confuscian influences, not Taoist.

      Buddhists later added:

      Build rather than destroy
      avoid rather than check
      check rather than maim
      maim rather than kill
      for all life is precious and none can be replaced.

      which was adopted by Shaolin as it's credo.
      Last edited by MasterKiller; 12/10/2004 12:36pm, .

      Comment


        #4
        I thought it was: Overthrow the Ching, Restore the Ming!
        “We are surrounded by warships and don’t have time to talk. Please pray for us.” — One Somali Pirate.

        Comment


          #5
          You thought wrong, sucka.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Mr_Mantis
            I thought it was: Overthrow the Ching, Restore the Ming!
            That civilisation may not sink,
            Its great battle lost,
            Quiet the dog, tether the pony
            To a distant post;
            Our master Caesar is in the tent
            Where the maps are spread,
            His eyes fixed upon nothing,
            A hand under his head.


            - W.B. Yeats

            Comment


              #7
              Kung Fu wasnt exactly known for its acuracy, are there any sources to sugest that it wasnt just made up by the script writers?

              Originally posted by Stickx
              It must suck for legit practitioners of tai chi like Cullion to see their art get all watered down into exercise for seniors.
              Those who esteme qi have no strength. ~ Exposition of Insights into the Thirteen Postures Attrib: Wu Yuxiang founder of Wu style tai chi.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Jekyll
                Kung Fu wasnt exactly known for its acuracy, are there any sources to sugest that it wasnt just made up by the script writers?
                Acccording to the ancient and noble tradition of wing chun, it is said Yip Man created all WC history on the spot when he was interviewed, including the part about the Mings and the Chings. So your theory holds some water.
                That civilisation may not sink,
                Its great battle lost,
                Quiet the dog, tether the pony
                To a distant post;
                Our master Caesar is in the tent
                Where the maps are spread,
                His eyes fixed upon nothing,
                A hand under his head.


                - W.B. Yeats

                Comment


                  #9
                  So, WingChun was the only school involved in the rebellion against the Ching? Wrong, sucka.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by MasterKiller
                    So, WingChun was the only school involved in the rebellion against the Ching? Wrong, sucka.
                    That civilisation may not sink,
                    Its great battle lost,
                    Quiet the dog, tether the pony
                    To a distant post;
                    Our master Caesar is in the tent
                    Where the maps are spread,
                    His eyes fixed upon nothing,
                    A hand under his head.


                    - W.B. Yeats

                    Comment


                      #11
                      It was pretty much the motto of every style involved in the rebellion. In fact, the standard Kung Fu salute (left hand open, right fist closed) that pretty much every kung fu school uses was a gang-sign for schools involved in the rebellion.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Heh, too bad it didn't work.
                        Lone Wolf McQuade Final Fight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmrDe_mYUXg

                        Comment


                          #13
                          That shit ain't the Shaolin Creed, it's A buddist saying and the closest one you put was this:

                          "LEARN THE WAY TO PRESERVE RATHER THAN DESTROY AVOID RATHER THAN CHECK; CHECK RATHER HURT;HURT RATHER THAN MAIM; MAIM RATHER THAN KILL;


                          then it ends right there.....

                          grumble grumble.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            The greatest Buddhist saying of all time:

                            "Nothing can shine in your asshole". I forget the source, my ex wife threw it out with the rest of my collection of books on world religions.

                            Bitch.

                            Anyway, the gist of it is that context is everything; and if you have a great idea surrounded by bullshit, it'll be considered bullshit as well.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Our kung-fu classes added the Bruce Lee saying to it.

                              If you touch me I will hit you, if you hit me I'll make you bleed, If you make me bleed I will break your bones, and if you break my bones I will kill you. Life may be precious but yours is the most important.

                              Comment

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