Zombie Apocolapse?

[Sealknife]

It's just something about the way a Glock looks and feels that I like.

I don't know exactly what it is about them. Right now I'm looking at a 2nd gen police trade in Glock 22. I'm in school and on a budget, but at $350 I've been resisting all day for the last few days.

Ditto on a 590. In the end I'm probably going to buy both, however. I like Obama and everything, but I want to get my weapons in order before too long.

[BadUglyMagic]

Maybe if they shot a "well-tuned" Glock, you might have an argument. Give any gunsmith worth his salt $500 and a decent quality out-of-the-box gun, & you'll get a much different weapon back.

Accountants, lawyers, & marketers? Yeah. Bullshit. Maybe mag caps & locks, but really, go get any of those people and tell them to "design" a gun. They won't have any more of a clue than the average anti-gunner. Quit just talking shit out your ass. :eusa_liar

I like Glocks but why should anyone spend an additional $500 or so to "tune" and new pistol and maybe achieve an operational parity with a new out-of- the-box Kimber?

Do you have any competition experience or other tests that show a cocked and locked 1911 is slower to bring to fire than a Glock?


Mag capacity and intergral locks were responses to government legislation and pressure.

Also, designers work with acccountants and lawyers to achieve minimum production costs and minimum legal liability against lawsuits. If it is too expensive for the market segment and unsafe to shoot/carry for its segment population, it won't get made.

[Vorpal]

Maybe if they shot a "well-tuned" Glock, you might have an argument. Give any gunsmith worth his salt $500 and a decent quality out-of-the-box gun, & you'll get a much different weapon back.



Accountants, lawyers, & marketers? Yeah. Bullshit. Maybe mag caps & locks, but really, go get any of those people and tell them to "design" a gun. They won't have any more of a clue than the average anti-gunner. Quit just talking shit out your ass. :eusa_liar

Come to think of it you're right. Lawyers have nothing to do with obscene trigger pulls, expense of manufacturing is never calculated in material selection and there's absolutely no way anyone from marketing was invovled in the "Ladysmith". I guess I stand corrected.

[Wounded Ronin]

I dislike glocks myself. I prefer my handgun to be heavier and to therefore have a steady rather than spikey recoil. For the same reason I feel much more comfortable firing a .45 than a .40 or a 9mm. I don't really personally understand why everyone claims 9mm is easier to handle or whatever. If I do shoot 9mm I personally feel a lot more comfortable and confident firing something like a beretta 92 than a glock.

[JudOWNED]

You guys are missing Jim's point.

I like Glocks but why should anyone spend an additional $500 or so to "tune" and new pistol and maybe achieve an operational parity with a new out-of- the-box Kimber?

Vorpal compared a Glock to a "well tuned" 1911. Jim's point, which still stands, is that any professional "tuning" is going to make a gun better.

Do you have any competition experience or other tests that show a cocked and locked 1911 is slower to bring to fire than a Glock?

I don't think anyone said that. What _I_ said (not Jim) is that speed is the reason for carrying a 1911 C&L. If you don't, you actually have to thumb the hammer back because 1911's are SAO. I suppose someone could train themselves, ala old west SA's, to thumb the hammer back as they draw but that's, well, ridiculous. But, otherwise, in order for 1911's to be on par with other modern pistols you have to carry them C&L. That certainly isn't the safest way to carry a firearm.

Mag capacity and intergral locks were responses to government legislation and pressure.

Yeah, LOWER mag caps were legislated. The point in this thread is that modern pistols with modern calibers have HIGHER mag caps than the 1911. And was anyone talking about intergral locks?

Come to think of it you're right. Lawyers have nothing to do with obscene trigger pulls, expense of manufacturing is never calculated in material selection and there's absolutely no way anyone from marketing was invovled in the "Ladysmith". I guess I stand corrected.

None of that means they "design" guns. Besides, the real issue was improvements. Modern guns have legit improvements over the 1911. HOwever, I need a clarification on something.

Most "modern improvements" can be translated to the 1911 pattern (hi cap frames, polymers, rails, etc) so that argument doesn't really carry water.

What did you mean here? At first I read it as those things came from the 1911 design. But on a second read I thought you might mean they can be added to it.

Re: Personal preference. Hey, if you simply prefer it, I can't really argue with that. But if you are saying it is a superior weapon, I see no evidence for it. Instead I see a historical weapon that, though it still may have it's place, is missing several desirable features that make modern guns safer and easier to use.

Edit: and for the record I don't like Glocks. I just don't like them for reasons other than "They are new."

[JudOWNED]

that 1851 navy would take a zombies head off. i'd hang on to that come 'z'pocalypse time if i were you.

Nah. It's only a .36 with 6 shots. And it's a bitch to reload.

[Vorpal]

What makes cocked and locked unsafe compared to carring a Glock with the same pound trigger? A glock only requires manipulation of it's trigger to fire. A 1911 requires that the safety be taken off, the grip safety be depressed and the trigger pulled. There's nothing "unsafe" about it. Quite frankly anyone who can't be bothered to learn the manual of arms for the weapon they are carrying shouldn't have their hands on it to begin with.

If you want a 1911 with a polymer frame you can get one. You can also get one double action only, you can get high capacity, night sights, rails on the frame for flashlights, lasers in your grips, full size, compact or sub compact. It's the most versital firearms platform around, dominates virtually every open class competition in the world and is the firearm of choice for more domestic special tactics teams than any other pistol. If someone expresses a preference for something else that's fine, to each his own. But arguments that its an outdated platform or that its inheirently unsafe are just unsound and illinformed.

[JudOWNED]

You can also get one double action only, you can get high capacity, night sights, rails on the frame for flashlights, lasers in your grips, full size, compact or sub compact.

At what point does it cease to be a 1911 and become a modern gun BASED ON a 1911 design?

I practice my Taekwondo from a boxing stance with shin kicks, a plum clinch, sweeps, elbows and knees, that I train by kicking MT pads and focus mitts with a boxing trainer and use in a ring under internation kickboxing rules. How dare you say TKD doesn't compare to MT!!!

The fact of the matter is, if there was nothing to improve on in the 1911, we'd all still be shooting 1911's.

[JingMerchant!]

Very important question here: Which kind of zombie apocolypse are we talking about?
Old school Romero? New Wave "Fast Zombies"? Demonic zombies brought forth by the Necronomicon? Those crazy Italian zombies that can box and do kung fu? Or Return of the Living Dead style super zombies, in which case we're all screwed anyway?

In the advent of a zombie outbreak, the best course of action is too increase your long term survival. Incapacitating an individual Zombie is important, but first, we need a strategy and intelligence on the nature of the threat. Locate a small area, such as an island of low population and clear it of infestation. This allows you to fortify and prepare.

Transport is vital, whatever you can obtain and pilot. This is also dictated by where you are going.

You also need adequate protection, because you limited in the ways of determining which zombie scenario your dealing with.

The best protection would be a fully sealed NBC suit, complete with customised armour, with full face helmet and air supply. We can't take the chance that this isn't an airborne infection.
The armour would have to be easy to move around in but sturdy enough to resist a bite. Something that is bullet proof and stab resistant would also be nice. Kevlar's nice this season, right?

I think any personal weapon would really be determined by the sort of zombie you're facing. Some sort of super zombie, extra fast and/or extra tough, yeah, guns are a damn good idea. But something like George Romero's shamblers...? Hell, I'd settle for a bat... Not my first choice... But, yeah, I'd settle.

The day-to-day destruction of Zombie's would be important, but a plan for long term survival is the key. Once you have fortified a position, the plan becomes getting rid of ALL of them. So then something like Nukes becomes part of the weaponry of choice.

[BadUglyMagic]

You guys are missing Jim's point.

Vorpal compared a Glock to a "well tuned" 1911. Jim's point, which still stands, is that any professional "tuning" is going to make a gun better.

I don't think anyone said that. What _I_ said (not Jim) is that speed is the reason for carrying a 1911 C&L. If you don't, you actually have to thumb the hammer back because 1911's are SAO. I suppose someone could train themselves, ala old west SA's, to thumb the hammer back as they draw but that's, well, ridiculous. But, otherwise, in order for 1911's to be on par with other modern pistols you have to carry them C&L. That certainly isn't the safest way to carry a firearm.

Yeah, LOWER mag caps were legislated. The point in this thread is that modern pistols with modern calibers have HIGHER mag caps than the 1911. And was anyone talking about intergral locks?

None of that means they "design" guns. Besides, the real issue was improvements. Modern guns have legit improvements over the 1911. HOwever, I need a clarification on something.

What did you mean here? At first I read it as those things came from the 1911 design. But on a second read I thought you might mean they can be added to it.

Re: Personal preference. Hey, if you simply prefer it, I can't really argue with that. But if you are saying it is a superior weapon, I see no evidence for it. Instead I see a historical weapon that, though it still may have it's place, is missing several desirable features that make modern guns safer and easier to use.

Edit: and for the record I don't like Glocks. I just don't like them for reasons other than "They are new."

Uh, I was responding to Jim. Please reread the quotes in my response. Vorpal and I made two similar yet different sets of commments. My reponses were to Jim's post.

The 1911 design has evolved and is in fact a "modern" firearm.

A 230 gr jacketed hollowpoint headshot would put down any zombie and should keep the majority if not all of them down.

[Vorpal]

At what point does it cease to be a 1911 and become a modern gun BASED ON a 1911 design?

I practice my Taekwondo from a boxing stance with shin kicks, a plum clinch, sweeps, elbows and knees, that I train by kicking MT pads and focus mitts with a boxing trainer and use in a ring under internation kickboxing rules. How dare you say TKD doesn't compare to MT!!!

The fact of the matter is, if there was nothing to improve on in the 1911, we'd all still be shooting 1911's.

Nice duck of my question about C&L carry. I 'll take that as you conceding my point.

To answer your question above, it depends. Its subjective. Now if the sum of your argument is that a Glock is superior to an early 1900s military issue 1911, I'd say maybe you're right. They had crappy sights after all. But is a Glock superior to my Kimber Custom Classic (only 700.00 NIB when I got it, no work done)? PM me if you come to NJ. I'll take you to the range on my dime and let you draw your own conclusions.

Oh, and after you shoot I'll let you watch me crack off a few rounds. I'm sure you'll have some tips for me on how I can improve.

[elipson]

The best protection would be a fully sealed NBC suit, complete with customised armour, with full face helmet and air supply. We can't take the chance that this isn't an airborne infection.
The armour would have to be easy to move around in but sturdy enough to resist a bite. Something that is bullet proof and stab resistant would also be nice. Kevlar's nice this season, right?

Mobility goes to shit, you're carrying extra weight, and lets hope you're not in some kind of hot place!

Stick with rugged civilian clothes and a gas mask if you're concerned about airborne infection.If the infection is airborne then you're fucked any which way you go really. The only airborne Z infection's were seen in I Am Legend and the Resident Evil movies, so lets stick with the typical Zombie cannon and assume its not airborne.

[Jim_Jude]

I like Glocks but why should anyone spend an additional $500 or so to "tune" and new pistol and maybe achieve an operational parity with a new out-of- the-box Kimber?

Try looking at the range of Kimbers out there, quality and out of the box "TUNED PERFORMANCE" is directly proportionate to how much you are willing to pay for one.

Do you have any competition experience or other tests that show a cocked and locked 1911 is slower to bring to fire than a Glock?

No, but of course, I didn't say that. Proper training gets things down to hundredths of a second so it doesn't really matter all that much. However, if all you have to do is pull the trigger, it makes things all the faster, huh? Complex? I think not.

Mag capacity and intergral locks were responses to government legislation and pressure.

Uh, yeah, that's what I said.

Also, designers work with acccountants and lawyers to achieve minimum production costs and minimum legal liability against lawsuits.

Can you provide an example of this? Seriously, I'm curious.

If it is too expensive for the market segment and unsafe to shoot/carry for its segment population, it won't get made.

Yes, it's nice that accountants help save money for gun designers that would otherwise waste stockholders money or run their companies into the ground.

& can you provide a gun that has actually be designed, or even a prototype, that's "unsafe to shoot/carry"?

[Jim_Jude]

Oh, my god! Anna! Turn Around! ANNA!!! LOOK OUT!!! AAAAHHHHH!!!!! OH GOD!!! HE GOT HER!!! WHY DIDN'T SHE LISTEN TO ME???

[MrGalt]

I have the Mossberg, but the only handgun I have other than a pile of .22s is a PPK and we all know how reliable those are, even if they do win points for style.

Actually, all my guns are 7,000 miles away now that I think about it. I'm going to die for sure.

What about the ZSG's supposition that a .22LR would rattle around in the skull and pulverize the brain? How many of us believe that? My big question is whether it would penetrate in the first place. If it would, then why not go really small and carry a .17HMR? Of course, I think you'd be more likely to get an exit wound with one of those.