"Jail Yard Rush" knife attack: defenses, anyone?

[Bolverk]

The racism on this thread renews my faith in the righteousness of hating white Americans.

As a White American, I couldn't care less what you think.

[Bolverk]

As a Man in an interacial marriage, you can keep your bigotry and anti bigotry bigotry on youtube and the prussian blue forums where they belong.

Hey, I am in an interacial marriage myself. And I could not be happier.

[selfcritical]

So these last two post just invite someone back into the discussion that had thankfully lost interest. You are probably being less productive than you might think.

[Bolverk]

STAB is the best unarmed vs. knife defense that I have tried. I contribute this to the simplicity of the techniques and the alive training.

SSGT is the best LEO vs knife defense that I have tried. The difference from the STAB program is that SSGT focuses on drawing your sidearm as soon as it is safely possible

Since the Philippines is a culture of the blade, I think they might disagree as to who has the best knife defense. Old Sayoc Kali is very effective stuff. But hey, I hope I never have to find out just how effective.

[Bolverk]

Sorry I missed you pussyholes. Been on a little business trip back to yard.

Anyway, all you so called martial artists or whatever be taking the piss when I mentioned a stab vest but you obvious ain't knowing basic prevention methods.

You'd all rather use lame fucking 'moves' and try to stop it. Well you cloths probably ain't never even faced a knife proper. I have. Stabbed 16 times.

A stab vest is essential for fighting with mans them tooled up with shivs.`

four twenty?

[Bolverk]

I recently read about an old FMA grandmaster that said that the majority of knife techniques that he teaches are drilling unarmed vs knifer, since statistically this is the situation that you must expect, someone to try and stab/cut you when you're unarmed. This really went against what one would expect if you believe the current trend of "knife sparring". Knife VS Knife is good to know, I suppose, but when it's a 1-in-10 situation while No Knife VS Knife is 9-in-10... well, it's just common sense to drill simply surviving against knife attacks. Once you can survive, then drill lots of disarms and such, if you like.

I always have my blade with me. However, I believe you should be drilling for the empty hand versus knife, because you will likely be attacked before you can draw your weapon.

[Bolverk]

So these last two post just invite someone back into the discussion that had thankfully lost interest. You are probably being less productive than you might think.

I don't come to a forum for productivity, I come for conversation. My productivity is measured elsewhere, like work.

[Jim_Jude]

four twenty?

Ha! Yeah, huh?

:englishmo

[Jim_Jude]

Also, it builds coordination, footwork, and is REALLY fun. You wouldn't say that fencers are morons because they'll never be challenged to a swashbuckling duel.

You missed the point entirely. "Training FOR knife dueling is idiotic". Knife dueling as an exercise or drill is just what it is. But don't expect to be in a situation where you're going to have your knife out or be able to deploy it DURING a knife attack.

ROTFLMAO

Trained knife fighters? Untrained knife fighters?

Who really gives a damn? The most basic thing that anyone with a knife needs to know, in order to be dangerous, is that the pointy end goes in the other guy.

Yes.

When I'm dealing with a suspect armed with a blade, most of the time, I'm not going to know (or care) whether he's a a highly trained kali expert or just some scumbag with a shiv. I'm going to treat both the same - as a serious threat. That's how I, and I imagine many of the other LEO's here, have been trained, and that's how I train now.

IMO, it is a very bad thing to train in absolutes. If you believe that an assailant would never attack you in a particular manner, you won't train for the possibility that it could happen. It causes one to train in a limited way, and that is very dangerous.

I think you missed my point.
Try this: go really piss off your wife/girlfriend/significant other, I mean really make them see red. Hand them a knife and have them attack you.

Compare that to the attack of a pissed off ex-con, or a pissed off FMA master, or a pissed off Silat master.

How often are you going to deal with the complexity of FMAs or SE Asian MA tactics? Prison & Jail attack videos show a small arsenal of knife attacks that can be drilled. Anyone that works in LE can see what the most common knife attacks are during crimes of passion committed by the "untrained".
I say, drill for these, and then worry about the occasional drugged-up Sayoc knifer jumping you in a dark alley. You say training in a limited way is dangerous. I say, train for the statistically probable attack varieties, and then work with the exotic stuff.


:eusa_danc

[Bladesinger]

Apologies, I'm a little lost here.
Are we saying that stab vests are bad, or just that Fisty McFistshimself is a retard?
If the former, any reason?
If the latter....well, I knew that already, but I suppose it's worth saying more than once.

[Phoenix]

Okay, this thread just got fucking stupid really fast.

[Bolverk]

I don't know about Natural Fistic, but Stab Vests seem to be very expensive. Not only that, they are usually part of a ballistic vest, which may be illegal for private citizens in the states, provided they have not been convicted of a violent felony.

[Phoenix]

I think you missed my point.
Try this: go really piss off your wife/girlfriend/significant other, I mean really make them see red. Hand them a knife and have them attack you. Compare that to the attack of a pissed off ex-con, or a pissed off FMA master, or a pissed off Silat master.

That depends. If your point was that anyone with a knife is dangerous and should be treated as such, then we share the same viewpoint.

How often are you going to deal with the complexity of FMAs or SE Asian MA tactics? Prison & Jail attack videos show a small arsenal of knife attacks that can be drilled. Anyone that works in LE can see what the most common knife attacks are during crimes of passion committed by the "untrained".
I say, drill for these, and then worry about the occasional drugged-up Sayoc knifer jumping you in a dark alley.

Where did I say anything about dealing with complexity of Filipino MA or any other kind of MA?

TRAINING with those concepts in mind is a good idea, but I'm not going to worry about dealing with such a person. If anything, I'm gonna treat every knife wielding nutcase equally - equally dangerous.

You say training in a limited way is dangerous. I say, train for the statistically probable attack varieties, and then work with the exotic stuff.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I get the impresson that when you talk about basing your training on statistics, you're concerning yourself with specific drills. If this is the case, then how do you apply these drills in scenarios where anything can happen? Or do you do that?

This has nothing to do with 'exotic stuff'. It has to do with preparing yourself for the eventuality that the fight is not going to go your way. In fact, it's been my experience that it rarely does.

It is ridiculous to train with statistics in mind because every person and every fight is different.

[Ryno]

I don't know about Natural Fistic, but Stab Vests seem to be very expensive. Not only that, they are usually part of a ballistic vest, which may be illegal for private citizens in the states, provided they have not been convicted of a violent felony.

I think he's talking about the homemade versions, with phonebooks and duct tape.

[Jim_Jude]

That depends. If your point was that anyone with a knife is dangerous and should be treated as such, then we share the same viewpoint.

Yes, I agree. However, I don't think that that is the extent of things. Do you?

Where did I say anything about dealing with complexity of Filipino MA or any other kind of MA?

TRAINING with those concepts in mind is a good idea, but I'm not going to worry about dealing with such a person. If anything, I'm gonna treat every knife wielding nutcase equally - equally dangerous.

Yes, but you said above that "IMO, it is a very bad thing to train in absolutes. If you believe that an assailant would never attack you in a particular manner, you won't train for the possibility that it could happen. It causes one to train in a limited way, and that is very dangerous."

You don't see the conflict? You "aren't going to worry about dealing with such a person" but you don't want "to train in a limited way"?

What is the universal knife defense that allows you to treat all knife attackers equal?
Two to the chest & one to the head?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I get the impresson that when you talk about basing your training on statistics, you're concerning yourself with specific drills. If this is the case, then how do you apply these drills in scenarios where anything can happen? Or do you do that?

This has nothing to do with 'exotic stuff'. It has to do with preparing yourself for the eventuality that the fight is not going to go your way. In fact, it's been my experience that it rarely does.

It is ridiculous to train with statistics in mind because every person and every fight is different.

Huh. Okay. So... :XXonlyamo