"Jail Yard Rush" knife attack: defenses, anyone?

[Bladesinger]

Apologies, I'm a little lost here.
Are we saying that stab vests are bad, or just that Fisty McFistshimself is a retard?
If the former, any reason?
If the latter....well, I knew that already, but I suppose it's worth saying more than once.

[Jim_Jude]

Also, it builds coordination, footwork, and is REALLY fun. You wouldn't say that fencers are morons because they'll never be challenged to a swashbuckling duel.

You missed the point entirely. "Training FOR knife dueling is idiotic". Knife dueling as an exercise or drill is just what it is. But don't expect to be in a situation where you're going to have your knife out or be able to deploy it DURING a knife attack.

ROTFLMAO

Trained knife fighters? Untrained knife fighters?

Who really gives a damn? The most basic thing that anyone with a knife needs to know, in order to be dangerous, is that the pointy end goes in the other guy.

Yes.

When I'm dealing with a suspect armed with a blade, most of the time, I'm not going to know (or care) whether he's a a highly trained kali expert or just some scumbag with a shiv. I'm going to treat both the same - as a serious threat. That's how I, and I imagine many of the other LEO's here, have been trained, and that's how I train now.

IMO, it is a very bad thing to train in absolutes. If you believe that an assailant would never attack you in a particular manner, you won't train for the possibility that it could happen. It causes one to train in a limited way, and that is very dangerous.

I think you missed my point.
Try this: go really piss off your wife/girlfriend/significant other, I mean really make them see red. Hand them a knife and have them attack you.

Compare that to the attack of a pissed off ex-con, or a pissed off FMA master, or a pissed off Silat master.

How often are you going to deal with the complexity of FMAs or SE Asian MA tactics? Prison & Jail attack videos show a small arsenal of knife attacks that can be drilled. Anyone that works in LE can see what the most common knife attacks are during crimes of passion committed by the "untrained".
I say, drill for these, and then worry about the occasional drugged-up Sayoc knifer jumping you in a dark alley. You say training in a limited way is dangerous. I say, train for the statistically probable attack varieties, and then work with the exotic stuff.


:eusa_danc

[Jim_Jude]

four twenty?

Ha! Yeah, huh?

:englishmo

[Bolverk]

So these last two post just invite someone back into the discussion that had thankfully lost interest. You are probably being less productive than you might think.

I don't come to a forum for productivity, I come for conversation. My productivity is measured elsewhere, like work.

[Bolverk]

I recently read about an old FMA grandmaster that said that the majority of knife techniques that he teaches are drilling unarmed vs knifer, since statistically this is the situation that you must expect, someone to try and stab/cut you when you're unarmed. This really went against what one would expect if you believe the current trend of "knife sparring". Knife VS Knife is good to know, I suppose, but when it's a 1-in-10 situation while No Knife VS Knife is 9-in-10... well, it's just common sense to drill simply surviving against knife attacks. Once you can survive, then drill lots of disarms and such, if you like.

I always have my blade with me. However, I believe you should be drilling for the empty hand versus knife, because you will likely be attacked before you can draw your weapon.

[Bolverk]

Sorry I missed you pussyholes. Been on a little business trip back to yard.

Anyway, all you so called martial artists or whatever be taking the piss when I mentioned a stab vest but you obvious ain't knowing basic prevention methods.

You'd all rather use lame fucking 'moves' and try to stop it. Well you cloths probably ain't never even faced a knife proper. I have. Stabbed 16 times.

A stab vest is essential for fighting with mans them tooled up with shivs.`

four twenty?

[Bolverk]

STAB is the best unarmed vs. knife defense that I have tried. I contribute this to the simplicity of the techniques and the alive training.

SSGT is the best LEO vs knife defense that I have tried. The difference from the STAB program is that SSGT focuses on drawing your sidearm as soon as it is safely possible

Since the Philippines is a culture of the blade, I think they might disagree as to who has the best knife defense. Old Sayoc Kali is very effective stuff. But hey, I hope I never have to find out just how effective.

[selfcritical]

So these last two post just invite someone back into the discussion that had thankfully lost interest. You are probably being less productive than you might think.

[Bolverk]

As a Man in an interacial marriage, you can keep your bigotry and anti bigotry bigotry on youtube and the prussian blue forums where they belong.

Hey, I am in an interacial marriage myself. And I could not be happier.

[Bolverk]

The racism on this thread renews my faith in the righteousness of hating white Americans.

As a White American, I couldn't care less what you think.

[selfcritical]

That's a good point. Training for knife dueling is idiotic. It is not self defense, it is a duel. I will not get in a knife duel, ever. Empty hand vs. knife is a much more likely scenerio to have happen, and it is good to focus on that. I see knife vs. knife simply as a training tool to teach you to keep a tight defense, and to be decisive with counter attacks.

Also, it builds coordination, footwork, and is REALLY fun. You wouldn't say that fencers are morons because they'll never be challenged to a swashbuckling duel.

[Bolverk]

The attacker did exactly the right thing. Advanced quickly on his target without mercy or emotion.

The defender did exactly the wrong thing. Trying to move backwards away from an attack that was coming top speed. The defender was in a losing position from the first step.

This is a worst case scenario, and one many would succumb to. The only chance you have is to not move away from the attack. Use cross body taps and angle away from the inital charge. And, hope to God you have your own knife with you. Other then that, pray alot.

[Ryno]

I recently read about an old FMA grandmaster that said that the majority of knife techniques that he teaches are drilling unarmed vs knifer, since statistically this is the situation that you must expect, someone to try and stab/cut you when you're unarmed. This really went against what one would expect if you believe the current trend of "knife sparring".

That's a good point. Training for knife dueling is idiotic. It is not self defense, it is a duel. I will not get in a knife duel, ever. Empty hand vs. knife is a much more likely scenerio to have happen, and it is good to focus on that. I see knife vs. knife simply as a training tool to teach you to keep a tight defense, and to be decisive with counter attacks.

[Hanniballistic]

We train to gouge eyes, bite, rip and tear when we cover UNARMED knife responses - if someone pulls a knife they area legitimate threat and ANY means necessary may be employed.

Personally prefer 180 grains of hot love (which is our preferred weapon of choice vs a knife) but we drill a lot of shock knife against unarmed oficers from distances raging from 3 - 20ft).

I have been involved in two knife on emty hands encounters - in both situations I blitz the asailant so fast he had a difficulttime reacting. That to me is the key in any defence...get it in first.

[Phoenix]

How many certified knife fighters will cops be dealing with? I would train for what I'd be encountering (statistically) if I was an LEO, which is "untrained knife attackers". Please correct me if I'm wrong.

ROTFLMAO


Trained knife fighters? Untrained knife fighters?

Who really gives a damn? The most basic thing that anyone with a knife needs to know, in order to be dangerous, is that the pointy end goes in the other guy.

When I'm dealing with a suspect armed with a blade, most of the time, I'm not going to know (or care) whether he's a a highly trained kali expert or just some scumbag with a shiv. I'm going to treat both the same - as a serious threat. That's how I, and I imagine many of the other LEO's here, have been trained, and that's how I train now.

IMO, it is a very bad thing to train in absolutes. If you believe that an assailant would never attack you in a particular manner, you won't train for the possibility that it could happen. It causes one to train in a limited way, and that is very dangerous.