"Jail Yard Rush" knife attack: defenses, anyone?

[Jim_Jude]

The racism on this thread renews my faith in the righteousness of hating white Americans.

You answer racism with racism? Brilliant :disgust:

[Dogsoldier]

As a Man in an interacial marriage, you can keep your bigotry and anti bigotry bigotry on youtube and the prussian blue forums where they belong.

[Hanniballistic]

your target being...?

[Jim_Jude]

So, both of those tit heads left? Good.

I guess post count is not indicative of brilliance, huh?

[Toby Christensen]

I saw a duckunder with hammerlock as a knife defence in an old WW1 manual. The only time I've been attacked with a knife I punched the person as hard as I could in the face and ran.

[IndoChinese]

most people will die if attacked that way.

run fu ftw.

[IndoChinese]

or go offside and rail his neck.

[IndoChinese]

'You'd like to think so.'

aint it the truth.

[golsa]

That looks...... brutal. I've read some FBI reports on knife attacks and they pretty much say that in a knife fight the unarmed person virtually always loses and gets cut 2-3 times.

A lot of this is common sense, but when I was taking Kali years ago we were pretty much taught that knives are effective 20 feet or less, so if someone comes at you with a knife your #1 priority is to maintain or make that room. Put anything possible between you and the attacker, throw anything you can at him, including anything in your pockets. Keys, change, your wallet, what ever and run.

Failing that, turn your palms towards your body & protect your trunk & neck areas. Deflections should be done with a downward scooping motion using the blade of the hand such that you direct the knife away from your body & have the hand in a position that doesn't expose the wrist to the blade.

I've toyed around with various other stuff in Shodokan Aikido tanto randori practice and there isn't a lot you can safely (though anything is better than nothing in attacks like that video...) to avoid thrusting knife attacks like those while staying away from the blade other than relying on defelctions. In real world practice I'd probably use a combo of deflections and nose/solar plexus punches and running like a mother fucker afterwards.

[caseyboy]

STAB is the best unarmed vs. knife defense that I have tried. I contribute this to the simplicity of the techniques and the alive training.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEZ6P0S2cas


SSGT is the best LEO vs knife defense that I have tried. The difference from the STAB program is that SSGT focuses on drawing your sidearm as soon as it is safely possible

[Phoenix]

STAB is the best unarmed vs. knife defense that I have tried. I contribute this to the simplicity of the techniques and the alive training.

SSGT is the best LEO vs knife defense that I have tried. The difference from the STAB program is that SSGT focuses on drawing your sidearm as soon as it is safely possible

Okay....my take on all that is simply this (and yes, I know I'm probably gonna catch a whole lot of hell for this, but I don't give a damn):

If you are facing an assailant with a knife, your immediate primary objective is to GET THE FUCK OUT OF HIS WAY. Distance is very much your friend in this type of scenario.

Above all else, you do NOT want to be grappling with a knife wielding maniac and trying to wrestle the knife out of his friggin hand - especially if it can be avoided. There is way too much risk of being stabbed or cut, and that's the biggest problem I have with taking on someone with a knife - all the blade has to do is touch you in order to do potentially serious damage.

Rather, you want to try to stay out of the path of the blade, get some distance and either deploy a weapon or get the fuck out of dodge.

The biggest problem I have with stuff like what is shown in the above video (and far too many police defensive tactics programs push this garbage) is that not one of those scenarios shown ever tested the premise that the defender was actually able to capture the assailant's knife hand to be able to apply the restraint/control tactics.

The reason for that is that it simply won't work - because if you're attacked by someone who is flailing a knife at you, and you're wasting your time trying to grab his hand, he's going to have a field day slicing your ass to ribbons.

Here's a good link that illustrates my point:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJGyxBgf0Is

[IndoChinese]

oh i agree, i think STAB sux.

there are like twelve other things i would do before that.

a standing armbar is not really that great a choice.

[caseyboy]

oh i agree, i think STAB sux.

there are like twelve other things i would do before that.

a standing armbar is not really that great a choice.

What, like "monkey steals the peach"?:sad5: That is not a standing arm bar, its a two (hands) on one attempt to isolate the weapon hand. And like I said, the reason I like STAB is because it DOESN'T HAVE "twelve" other things. It is kept very simple and trained alive. I have no idea what your gung fu style uses for its knife defense, but I will go out on a limb right now and say if you do not use alive training it won't work.



Phoenix, avoiding the fight altogether is always the first option. Both STAB and SSGT endorse that and operate under the assumption that you do not have that choice. STAB even goes so far to assume that the first time you actually realize there is a knife involved, it is being drawn back out of you.


I highly recommend looking into SSGT, it is quickly becoming the standard in police academies down this way. The techniques are simple and revolve around drawing your sidearm.
http://www.ssgt.us/

[Phoenix]

Phoenix, avoiding the fight altogether is always the first option. Both STAB and SSGT endorse that and operate under the assumption that you do not have that choice. STAB even goes so far to assume that the first time you actually realize there is a knife involved, it is being drawn back out of you.


I highly recommend looking into SSGT, it is quickly becoming the standard in police academies down this way. The techniques are simple and revolve around drawing your sidearm.
http://www.ssgt.us/

I think you misunderstood me. I'm not referring to avoiding the fight altogether, I'm talking about tactical repositioning. Concepts such as 'sensitivity', 'zoning', and 'line familiarization' are also applicable. That way, you can actually get to a position where you can deploy your firearm, baton, taser, etc.

I can understand how something like that COULD be useful, especially if you've already been attacked. But my first line of defense is not going to be to get close to the suspect, because that's exactly where he wants me to be.

I know that alot of police departments are looking at that stuff. They're also looking at that Hans Marerro crap, or some of that other stuff out there too....because police administrators feel that the techniques taught by those systems are more media and public friendly.

They don't want to teach their officers systems like PFS or ISR Matrix because some of the techniques used actually involve killing your suspect with your bare hands, if necessary. The public would react very harshly in favour of the suspect if an officer had to resort to gouging the eyes out of some crackhead, even if he was trying to shove a knife between the officer's ribs. I don't think I need to even type here what the media would do with a scenario such as that.

[IndoChinese]

'What, like "monkey steals the peach"? '

lolz...though i do know about four variations of that, and one i have in mind would do the trick.

'That is not a standing arm bar, its a two (hands) on one attempt to isolate the weapon hand.'

okay, let me be more precise. it's a shitty kinjit.

' And like I said, the reason I like STAB is because it DOESN'T HAVE "twelve" other things. It is kept very simple and trained alive. I have no idea what your gung fu style uses for its knife defense, but I will go out on a limb right now and say if you do not use alive training it won't work.'

feel free to limit yourself all you like.

stab might work against untrained knife attackers.

might.