"Jail Yard Rush" knife attack: defenses, anyone?

[Jim_Jude]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibGyGG3X4PI

This vid is the best I've seen on the actual execution, of a practiced knifer using this tactic.

For LEOs, doormen, martial artists out there, what defenses, if any, do you drill for this style of attack?

[rw4th]

Both STAB and Red Zone have material that covers this.

[leere_form]

wow, knives are dangerous.

by the way, you do FMA.. shouldn't you know how to deal with knives and such?

[Hanniballistic]

I cannot see the video because it is blocked, but I'll try and log in and view it later before I offer specific coments, but in general terms.....

Most LEO knife tactics follow the "Pat, wrap, attack" line of thought

Pat = block/deflect
Wrap = control the arm with the weapon
Attack = duh!

In my force we practice shock knife drills against specified lines of attack (that we basically nicked from FMA) and random attacks.

I have no issue with pat and attack, but wrapping is a little bit "hmmm" to my mind

[dingirfecho]

[goosetherumfoodle]

Does anyone know what the Target Focus Training on the website linked from that video is about?

I love the claims made on the site:

In fact, handling one of these self defense situations is really much easier than you imagine, even when...

* You've never been in a real fight in your life,
* You're way out-of-shape (real fights end in seconds; this isn't the movies),
* You have physical limitations (we just gave a totally blind man his own set of self defense skills),
* You're old (one member of our Mastery program was 62 years old),
* You're small (a 120-pound woman once cracked the sternum of a 240-pound guy with a simple palm strike),
* You've got no time to practice self defense...
:phil2:

[Ryno]

Some combination of: angle off, deflect initial attack, cover your vitals, counter attack to head, get two handed control on knife hand, headbutt, stomp, run the fuck away. Good defense may consist of all of those factors, or just a few. And even then, the odds are against you.

A knife is too unpredictable to really give an A-B-C defense. With so manny possibilities you'd be setting yourself up for failure if you tried a simplistic counter for every attack. When I teach basic knife defense, the main points are too minimize damage and escape. People who try to win a fight against a knife attacker with commitment usually end up dead. Escape is your best chance for survival.

If you are vastly more experienced than the attacker, it is possible to beat them up. But it's still not a guarantee.

[poidog]

The Dog Brothers DVD "Die Less Often" deals extensively with this type of primal driven attack.

[valetudo21]

I don't have any experience in knife fighting or how to defend against a knife so this is purely from a mma perspective (take it as you will).

I think my first response IF i knew they had a knife would be obviously leave the area.

If i was attacked, i probably would tie them up and go to the ground out of instinct from training. I see some value in tieing people up as well, especially if you can limit their arms' range of motion.

Perhaps they drop the knife in the process, maybe not.

One way or another you are probably going to get hurt, or stabbed a couple times, it's just about surviving, no steven seagal crap.

[dingirfecho]

The Dog Brothers DVD "Die Less Often" deals extensively with this type of primal driven attack.

[nzeman]

Yep, this is pretty much the prison yard rush, very well executed, where the knifer expects the defender to try something fancy so instead of leading with the knife he leads with the offhand, getting it around the head, then repeatedly stabs the unarmed guy.

I will say that the knifer in this video pulled it off flawlessly, he went from a standstill to a running lunge in an instant, he reached out with the off hand first to get the neck, and he withheld the knife stab until the last second, where the defender would have no chance of getting a block or arm wrap or anything in.

[Jim_Jude]

wow, knives are dangerous.

by the way, you do FMA.. shouldn't you know how to deal with knives and such?

You'd like to think so.

[RobG]

I could not call up the vid..and have toi relay on descriptions written by all the above.

I am a 22 year veteran of NYC Corrections - most spent in a nast Brooklyn jail and Rikers Island.

I have 2 penetration scars from a very direct attack from a M.O. (mental observation) inmate from more than 10 years ago. Small on surface but deep in the body.

The thing that saved me was nothing special - the first time was a given - the second was seeing me grab the hand on reteat and hold it by a stiff arm away from any chance of a 3-peat.
My left arm was free -and because most untrained attackers who rely on weapons - he froze when his ulitmate weapon was useless -and I basically beat him down with my free left fist and elbow.

Dog Brothers are a fine source of study..wish I had them in my collection over a decade ago.

NOT what I prefer to train in - BUT - their work creeps into - bleeds over -to my way of 'doing the work'.

[Tyrsmann]

The Dog Brothers are Gods:bowdown: all hail the Dog Brothers

Shameless nutriding, I know. But either way you put the Dog brothers are still bad asses

[nzeman]

Honestly if you watch the video a few times you can see that the knife attacker is not just randomly flailing. He is executing every action extremely deliberately. He rushes in, controls the clinch, and THEN starts stabbing. The knife thrusts are withheld until he has control of the victim, making it almost impossible to defend against. Very well done. It looks brutal, but this is the most efficient way to kill somebody with a knife when they are unarmed.

What I find really weird is if you go the website linked in the information it is basically a generic type RBSD self defense school where they tell you how you can stop an attack like this. So after showing you an almost undefensible knife attack they claim to be able to teach you how to stop it. Interesting.