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"House Gun": The ultimate home defense weapon, or the ultimate Elmore-esque gimmick?

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  • Robstafarian
    replied
    You all should consider starting a new thread for the shooting range discussion, there's no telling who else might want to get in on it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Antifa
    replied
    Originally posted by auschip
    Hill Country Rifle Range (AKA Crazy Richard's) shutdown. Apparently a developer came in and bought the place. I typically shoot at Red's in Oakhill, but wish I could find a better place.
    yeah a couple of friends of mine went to crazy richards once. They were happy to have the freedom to do what they wanted. They were there alone so the guy that ran the place had all day to give them the alien-jesus-lizards-control-the-black-helicopters-from-outer-space spiel. My friends took his literature and never went back.

    I read the stuff

    He crazy

    Leave a comment:


  • TEA
    replied
    Crazy Richard sold out to a developer? He had been turning down offers by the Austin Rifle Club for years. With all the development around Manor, Austin Rifle Club has been looking to relocate. Of course, now that there is a bunch of development out near Hamilton Pool, so we'd face the same problems out there, too. The main advantage to relocating to the Hill Country side of Austin, though, is the possibility of using a big hill as a backstop to minimize the risk of a round leaving the range.

    Leave a comment:


  • auschip
    replied
    Other options in the area include:

    Hill Country Rifle Range out near Hamilton Pool, which is owned by a crazy old coot that really believes in the whole black helicopts/UN conspiracy stuff. Pretty laid back, though.

    Reds in either Oak Hill or Pfluegerville. Red is a cool guy, but he's raised his rates, so its pretty spendy to go there on a regular basis.

    Temple Gun Club outside of Temple. Its a bit of a drive from Austin (unless you actually live in Round Rock or Georgetown) but they have a 300yd line and have three gun and IDPA matches, in addition to the service rifle and high power matches that I go up there for.

    Antifa and JNP, if you want to check out Austin Rifle Club, PM me some time in the new year (way to busy with Holiday crap right now to go shoot) and I'll see if I can sneak out of the house long enough to go blasting with you.
    Hill Country Rifle Range (AKA Crazy Richard's) shutdown. Apparently a developer came in and bought the place. I typically shoot at Red's in Oakhill, but wish I could find a better place.

    Leave a comment:


  • Don Gwinn
    replied
    M1 Carbines are sweet little guns, and the truly silly thing is how many people will tell you that the .30 Carbine round is not powerful enough--but they have no problem with .45, .44 Rem Mag, 9mm, or .40 carbines. .30 carbine is more powerful than any of those handgun rounds. It simply got a bad rap because soldiers decided it wasn't a good enough stopper in the WWII Pacific and in Korea.

    Well, let's be fair--NOTHING stops Koreans reliably. They'll jump-spin-kick you right out off your jeep.

    The funny thing is that a lot of the vets who had stories of the M1 Carbine failing miserably had nothing but praise for the M3 and the 1911--both chambered in .45 acp, which would more or less be .30 Carbine's weak sister. Some folks think a wider bullet solves all problems.


    Anyway, for people, there's nothing wrong with the M1 Carbine. Reliable, expanding hollow points would be good, and I don't know much about what's available in that line, but power-wise, it's no problem, especially at indoor distances. It's also short, light, handy, and creates almost no felt recoil. Almost like an M4 clone, except that it would be hard to hang 23 pounds of stuff off the front end and it's much prettier.

    I'm a little biased. One of my dad's greatest regrets was an M1 carbine. His was a Winchester of WWII vintage, which is one of the harder-to-find variants (WWII guns are often collected by manufacturers, since companies like Frigidaire and Singer Sewing switched to producing rifles and pistols.) Anyway, we used to set a box full of phone books on a folding chair at one end of the gun shop and shoot that M1 through pop cans from the other end. It was slightly safer than it sounds, since if we'd missed the round would have entered the exterior wall and, if it had exited, could have gone a long way without likely hitting anyone, but still more or less idiotic. Lots of fun, though.

    When it came time to close the shop, dad felt he had to put that carbine up for auction with the inventory to be sure he could pay the bank. In the end, we made far more than we needed to pay all the debts (should have been having auctions all along, I guess) but by that time the carbine had been sold. He still talks about it.
    I should really get him another one before it gets too expensive to contemplate.

    Leave a comment:


  • TEA
    replied
    Originally posted by oldman34
    Are you serious about the M1? I have one and never thought about using it.
    Carbine or Garand? I think the carbine makes a good house gun if loaded with the approprieate ammo, and the Garand is certainly one of the all time best battle rifles. The Garand is a bit of overkill for home defense (see Antifa's post regarding drawbacks of the M14 for home defense and its pretty much the same for the Garand) but is better than nothing, is fun for range shooting, and is death on deer and hogs.

    Leave a comment:


  • HonkyTonkMan
    replied
    Originally posted by TEA
    In the $500 range, don't forget an M1 carbine. Sure, the .30 carbine round has taken a lot of hits for being inneffective, but its a lot more effective with a jacketed hollowpoint round than the FMJ the military is/was forced to use. According to DocGR over on the Tacticial forums, .30 carbine jhp has pretty similar terminal ballistics as .357 jhp. Also, for just over $500 you can get an M1 Garand from the CMP. .30-06 is a bit of overkill for homedefense, but its pretty darn useful as a general purpose round, especially in the country.

    In the $1200 and up range, get and M14 type rifle, accesorize, and train. Like the .30-06, .308 is a bit of overkill for home defense, but another darn good general purpose round.
    Are you serious about the M1? I have one and never thought about using it.

    Leave a comment:


  • TEA
    replied
    Does pretty good against deer, too. Just took two bucks with mine the other week.

    Leave a comment:


  • Antifa
    replied
    Originally posted by TEA
    In the $500 range, don't forget an M1 carbine. Sure, the .30 carbine round has taken a lot of hits for being inneffective, but its a lot more effective with a jacketed hollowpoint round than the FMJ the military is/was forced to use. According to DocGR over on the Tacticial forums, .30 carbine jhp has pretty similar terminal ballistics as .357 jhp. Also, for just over $500 you can get an M1 Garand from the CMP. .30-06 is a bit of overkill for homedefense, but its pretty darn useful as a general purpose round, especially in the country.

    In the $1200 and up range, get and M14 type rifle, accesorize, and train. Like the .30-06, .308 is a bit of overkill for home defense, but another darn good general purpose round.
    To the M-14 in the primary home defense role I have 2 objections:

    1) .308 is to much. If you live in a populated area like me over penetration is a serious concern with this round. But if you dont give a fuck about the nieghboors.... And lawsuits....

    2) The M-14 is a huge beast of a gun. Indoors cornering is going to be an issue.

    My advice when going to rifle route is to stick to carbines and carbine type ammo as your top end in terms of length and power. And shorten your carbine if you can with a folding or sliding stock.

    Other than that... M-14 is great if you can afford it. That thing will whack zombies all day. In the next county.

    Leave a comment:


  • TEA
    replied
    Originally posted by Antifa
    But home defense: Spend $300, get a shotgun. Accessorize. Train.

    or where its legal: Spend $500, get an GOOD SKS or AK-47. Accessorize. Train.

    or if you got money: Spend $1000, get an AR-15 or varriant, accessorize. Train.
    In the $500 range, don't forget an M1 carbine. Sure, the .30 carbine round has taken a lot of hits for being inneffective, but its a lot more effective with a jacketed hollowpoint round than the FMJ the military is/was forced to use. According to DocGR over on the Tacticial forums, .30 carbine jhp has pretty similar terminal ballistics as .357 jhp. Also, for just over $500 you can get an M1 Garand from the CMP. .30-06 is a bit of overkill for homedefense, but its pretty darn useful as a general purpose round, especially in the country.

    In the $1200 and up range, get and M14 type rifle, accesorize, and train. Like the .30-06, .308 is a bit of overkill for home defense, but another darn good general purpose round.

    Leave a comment:


  • TEA
    replied
    Originally posted by Antifa
    Right now looking for a new place. Austin Skeet and Gun club out in manor just closed.

    It was a good place. Mostly because it was cheap and the rangemaster was often to drunk to give us trouble over doing some non-standard stuff. And he liked us... So some rules didnt apply.

    You got a place? I'm looking for somewhere right now that

    a) Isnt full of cops

    b) doesnt cost an arm and a leg

    c) lets you do more than fire from the bench.
    I belong to the Austin Rifle Club out in Manor (across 290 from the Austin Skeet and Gun Club). A bit more rule oriented than Austin Skeet and Gun Club, but we can do more than shoot off the bench.

    http://www.austinrifleclub.org/index.html

    a) A few of the members are cops, military, ex-cops and ex-military, but I wouldn't characterize it as being "full of cops."

    b) Membership is $75 a year, which is cheap compared to shooting at public ranges if you shoot on a regular basis.

    c) You can shoot from whatever position you want on the 200yd range as long as there are at least five firing points between you and someone shooting on a bench. Since there are 26 firing points and I hardly ever see more than a couple of people shooting on the 200yd range unless they're also shooting from position, this is not really much of a problem.

    d) Although you didn't list a d), I'll address it anyways. Because there has been a lot of development in the area in the last decade or so, there are quite a few houses near by and down range over the berms, so the club is pretty anal about keeping all rounds inside the range and not pissing off the neighbors. So, no quick draw. Also, no Class III firearms.

    Austin Rifle Club has high power, pistol, black powder, benchrest, and small bore matches every month that are open to the public if you want to go check it out sometime. Before my daughter was born last year, I was shooting at the high power matches every month, but have only recently started to get back into shooting (fatherhood is so much more of a time commitment than I realized).

    Other options in the area include:

    Hill Country Rifle Range out near Hamilton Pool, which is owned by a crazy old coot that really believes in the whole black helicopts/UN conspiracy stuff. Pretty laid back, though.

    Reds in either Oak Hill or Pfluegerville. Red is a cool guy, but he's raised his rates, so its pretty spendy to go there on a regular basis.

    Temple Gun Club outside of Temple. Its a bit of a drive from Austin (unless you actually live in Round Rock or Georgetown) but they have a 300yd line and have three gun and IDPA matches, in addition to the service rifle and high power matches that I go up there for.

    Antifa and JNP, if you want to check out Austin Rifle Club, PM me some time in the new year (way to busy with Holiday crap right now to go shoot) and I'll see if I can sneak out of the house long enough to go blasting with you.

    Leave a comment:


  • Antifa
    replied
    Originally posted by Robstafarian
    I can't decide if this is on or off topic, my apologies if I've extrapolated too far from the subject...
    It's off topic. but I'll bite.


    Originally posted by Robstafarian






    Does anyone here think that this gun could serve in place of a shotgun for home defense, supposing that someone wants to avoid a shotgun if at all possible? I see that Winchester makes a 2.5" 410 shell loaded with 3 pellets of 000 buck, apparently the biggest load this thing can fire of any sort, does that capability make it any more interesting for home defense?

    Fair warning, I have never hunted and have no knowledge of why certain types of shot are used for a given target. The best I say in that area is that I know roughly how big the various pellet sizes are.
    The short answer: No.

    The medium answer: You live in VA. Buy a real shotgun. Mossberg or Remmington.

    The long answer: With a 3.5" barrel thats a big holdout pistol. Thats what a shotshell loaded revoler is. its to kill the fuck out of somebody from 5 feet away. It's not for home defense (well... its better than bringing your fist to a gun fight).

    Small revolvers with big punch come in all sizes. Lts can be loaded with .410 shot shells. A friend of mine has a 2 shot single action .410 derringer. It's a curisosity and a holdout peice. He also owns real guns.

    At 5 feet with 2-6 big rounds from a short revolver you are going to kill the fuck out of somebody weather its .357, .410 shot, .454. .45 ACP or whatever the thing takes. But its a holdout peice. So concentrate on holsters, placement, drawing drills etc.

    Somebody here who does alot more carry concealed than me might want to give you sound advice on all that.

    But home defense: Spend $300, get a shotgun. Accessorize. Train.

    or where its legal: Spend $500, get an GOOD SKS or AK-47. Accessorize. Train.

    or if you got money: Spend $1000, get an AR-15 or varriant, accessorize. Train.

    Leave a comment:


  • Antifa
    replied
    Originally posted by TEA
    OK, to sum up the thread so far:

    1 - If the "housegun" in the original post is not a joke, it should be. One would be better off strategically placing claymore mines throughout one's house than to use that monstrocity.

    2 - Shotguns are our friends.

    3 - Tactical reloads are good, but like any other technique, require practice.

    4 - Don't do tactical reloads while standing in the middle of the room in front of an armed attacker (duh!).

    5 - Don't use bird or buckshot when going for a head shot against a hostage taker (double duh!).

    6 - Antifa and Zendetta know love each other in a non-ghey perfectly appropriate manly sort of mannish way only if they smoke enough dope.

    Am I missing anything?

    BTW - Antifa, where do you shoot when you're in Austin?

    Right now looking for a new place. Austin Skeet and Gun club out in manor just closed.

    It was a good place. Mostly because it was cheap and the rangemaster was often to drunk to give us trouble over doing some non-standard stuff. And he liked us... So some rules didnt apply.

    You got a place? I'm looking for somewhere right now that

    a) Isnt full of cops

    b) doesnt cost an arm and a leg

    c) lets you do more than fire from the bench.

    Leave a comment:


  • Robstafarian
    replied
    Originally posted by jnp
    I want to know if you guys ever get tired of Don pwning your asses?
    I count on Don pwning me, that's how I learn about firearms :icon_stud

    Leave a comment:


  • jnp
    replied
    This thread made me laugh. I want to know if you guys ever get tired of Don pwning your asses? Damned reasonable and intelligent posters. They have no business here with all of us 'roid rage sportfighter freaks.
    Originally posted by TEA
    BTW - Antifa, where do you shoot when you're in Austin?
    I go to Red's. PM me if anyone wants to go shooting sometime.


    Originally posted by Don Gwinn
    And now we all love each other again.
    Originally posted by GuiltySpark
    I blame Aikido
    Game, set and match goes to GuiltySpark.

    Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go buy a Tapout tea cozy for my tea drinkin' roid rage friends.

    Leave a comment:

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