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"House Gun": The ultimate home defense weapon, or the ultimate Elmore-esque gimmick?

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    #61
    You guys are talking past each other with the selective loading issue. Some of you are defending selective loading of the shotgun as a legitimate technique, which it certainly is. Others of you are imagining doing this in plain sight in front of a bad guy holding a hostage, and it occurs to you that he probably wouldn't just let you do it. That's true, too. The technique is designed to give you a quick, positive way to switch between different ammunition for different purposes when appropriate. That means behind cover, when about to approach a threat, during times of transition, etc. The idea of starting with shot and leaving the slugs as backup is that this way you have the immediate, close-quarters ammo loaded--at least one shot--for immediate use. The slugs are usually going to be used at greater distance or when greater precision is required, so there will more often be time to load before they're needed than there would be with the shot.
    Some of you seem to be envisioning trying to eject and load while in your kitchen with a burglar holding a gun to your wife's head across the room. That's not what the technique is intended to do--it can't make the impossible into the possible. It's just a way to be more flexible.

    A member at www.thehighroad.org emailed asking for more information and eventually was told that there's 6" of actual 12 guage barrel before the expansion starts, which I guess makes sense--there'd be no way for the powder to propel the shot if it opened up right at the chamber, the way it actually looks in the photos.

    He was quoted a price of $250 for steel on any of the popular shotguns---actually pretty cheap for one-off custom work this appears to be. They told him $450 for carbon fiber. I hadn't even noticed that they claimed to make this thing in carbon fiber! If they really make these things (and I think that's REALLY in doubt now) then I hope the CF version is carbon fiber applied over a steel "sleeve" of some sort.

    Another member says that the "EZ-PZ" the same company sells is apparently real--they supposedly have delivered these to people who PayPal $300 each.

    I don't know what to make of it except that if it's a joke, it's dumb, and if it's real, it's a solution in search of a problem. I can't imagine wanting one even if it were real.

    Comment


      #62
      Originally posted by Don Gwinn
      You guys are talking past each other with the selective loading issue. Some of you are defending selective loading of the shotgun as a legitimate technique, which it certainly is. Others of you are imagining doing this in plain sight in front of a bad guy holding a hostage, and it occurs to you that he probably wouldn't just let you do it. That's true, too. The technique is designed to give you a quick, positive way to switch between different ammunition for different purposes when appropriate. That means behind cover, when about to approach a threat, during times of transition, etc. The idea of starting with shot and leaving the slugs as backup is that this way you have the immediate, close-quarters ammo loaded--at least one shot--for immediate use. The slugs are usually going to be used at greater distance or when greater precision is required, so there will more often be time to load before they're needed than there would be with the shot.
      Some of you seem to be envisioning trying to eject and load while in your kitchen with a burglar holding a gun to your wife's head across the room. That's not what the technique is intended to do--it can't make the impossible into the possible. It's just a way to be more flexible..
      obviously I'm not going to switch in front of the guy. Jesus.


      Did I sound like I would try that? If so my bad. of course you switch during transistion or under cover. And yes it happens fast.

      but even if I was unclear will somebody explain to Zen that this does invovle the actions of "juggling" or fumbling, or doves flying... or Johnny Woo.... or any of that

      thanks

      Comment


        #63
        Ok now I feel dumb.

        Originally posted by Don Gwinn
        You guys are talking past each other with the selective loading issue. Some of you are defending selective loading of the shotgun as a legitimate technique, which it certainly is. Others of you are imagining doing this in plain sight in front of a bad guy holding a hostage, and it occurs to you that he probably wouldn't just let you do it. That's true, too. The technique is designed to give you a quick, positive way to switch between different ammunition for different purposes when appropriate. That means behind cover, when about to approach a threat, during times of transition, etc. The idea of starting with shot and leaving the slugs as backup is that this way you have the immediate, close-quarters ammo loaded--at least one shot--for immediate use. The slugs are usually going to be used at greater distance or when greater precision is required, so there will more often be time to load before they're needed than there would be with the shot.
        Some of you seem to be envisioning trying to eject and load while in your kitchen with a burglar holding a gun to your wife's head across the room. That's not what the technique is intended to do--it can't make the impossible into the possible. It's just a way to be more flexible.
        .
        This then makes sense. I have to admint I thought (with only slight justification) that there was a suggestion of useing this technique in a situation were a hostage had been taken and you switched loads.

        Because of this.

        Originally posted by Antifa
        2nd... What if they have a hostage? like your kids? or your spouse/significant other/main sweety? You cant take a head shot on a hostage holder with that. You can with a convetional shotgun.
        While it is not stated here that this was the plan, I made the assumption that the suggestion was to attempt this trick when confronting a hostage taker. My error.

        The above statment proceeded this one (below) which is where I and other made the assumption.

        Originally posted by Antifa
        Assumptions are the mother of all flamebait.
        this is how it is done kids.
        You need: A pump shotgun (loaded with buck), a side-saddle with 1/2 buck half rifled slugs. keep the rifled slugs inverted in the side saddle so you can tell the difference in the dark.
        now:
        1) Shuck the slide back, ejecting a buck round.
        2) Draw a slug round from the side saddle
        3) shuck the slide forward chambering the rifled slug
        4) Take the shot
        5) work the slide chambering another buck round.
        Details can be found on the following training video:
        http://www.abcf.net/tdc/videos.htm
        if you dont wish to blow the 20 bucks on either video, pm me and we'll arrange you to get a burned copy.
        2 cents for free on the interweb,
        Antifa
        Don as usual you are a scolar and a gentleman for point out that we are all fucking nuts. Thank you sir.

        PT
        Last edited by Planktime; 12/05/2006 6:37pm, .

        Comment


          #64
          Originally posted by Antifa
          2nd... What if they have a hostage? like your kids? or your spouse/significant other/main sweety? You cant take a head shot on a hostage holder with that. You can with a convetional shotgun.
          Okey Dokey.

          Comment


            #65
            Originally posted by Antifa
            I got a novel idea. Humor me. Get (buy, borrow, steal) a fuxing mosberg and try it. I bet you get it right pretty quick.
            My friend, it is You who have the selective hearing/seeing/reading comprehension.

            I can imagine the move clearly. Its not that complex. I used to own a pump-action Mossberg.

            Hell, I use to hunt doves with a side-by-side double barrel 12 gauge, while pinching another two shells between the knuckles of the hand on the barrel. I'd fire my two barrels, crack the breech, slide in the next two, and shoot again. I could fire four shells with the double barrell in the time it took to shoot two (maybe three) with a pump action.

            The salient issue is that the doves weren't firing back.

            So humor me instead. You no doubt know how to tie your own shoes and have praticed this simple skill since childhood. I certainly hope you can do it without thinking about it - ie, perform it automatically.

            Now get one of your training buddies to kick your ass and try to tie your shoes while he does it. See how well your shoe-tieing technique holds up. Make sure you get video.


            This is my point. Its not too complex to do it. But I'd have very serious reservations about accomplishing it safely during the tactical situation of a home invasion and hostage rescue. Clear enough?

            Comment


              #66
              shit... I'll go one better. send me a mailing address and I'll send you the DVD. Tell me how hard it was to learn all the fundmentals

              And bring a non-shooting novice along as a control.

              Write it up when your done post it here.

              The test is not weather you like the vid...

              its weather the material is easy to learn

              you down?

              any other takers?
              Hey dude if you're serious I'd like to take you up on that offer?
              I'd like to try it out and see how effective it is, I have a lot of time shooting inc. shotguns. I can (attempt) to try it with other guys in the army who have considerable shooting time albeit no shotgun experience and also try it with guys (and girls) who have zero experience with firearms. I think that pretty much covers the range of skill level?

              Comment


                #67
                Originally posted by GuiltySpark
                Hey dude if you're serious I'd like to take you up on that offer?
                I'd like to try it out and see how effective it is, I have a lot of time shooting inc. shotguns. I can (attempt) to try it with other guys in the army who have considerable shooting time albeit no shotgun experience and also try it with guys (and girls) who have zero experience with firearms. I think that pretty much covers the range of skill level?
                post or pm the address you want it at and its in the mail.

                only one note. The producers of the video would be considered subversive by the army powers that be. So use whatever caution you feel is nessecary when selecting the address.

                How much am I paying to mail a dvd to afganistan anyway?

                and do you want the urban rifle video too? or is that a little redundant for you? (they both fit on 1 dvd so it doesnt matter to me in terms of cost)

                Comment


                  #68
                  Originally posted by Zendetta
                  My friend, it is You who have the selective hearing/seeing/reading comprehension.

                  I can imagine the move clearly. Its not that complex. I used to own a pump-action Mossberg.

                  Hell, I use to hunt doves with a side-by-side double barrel 12 gauge, while pinching another two shells between the knuckles of the hand on the barrel. I'd fire my two barrels, crack the breech, slide in the next two, and shoot again. I could fire four shells with the double barrell in the time it took to shoot two (maybe three) with a pump action.

                  The salient issue is that the doves weren't firing back.

                  So humor me instead. You no doubt know how to tie your own shoes and have praticed this simple skill since childhood. I certainly hope you can do it without thinking about it - ie, perform it automatically.

                  Now get one of your training buddies to kick your ass and try to tie your shoes while he does it. See how well your shoe-tieing technique holds up. Make sure you get video.


                  This is my point. Its not too complex to do it. But I'd have very serious reservations about accomplishing it safely during the tactical situation of a home invasion and hostage rescue. Clear enough?
                  okay Zen... I read you. now dig this kind veggie rainbow love brother:

                  why would I do that? Why not just fight barefoot? or with your shoes half falling off? clumsy, sucks to be you. better than getting curbed. Which is what my training partners would think to do with aliveness if I tried your excercise. Well maybe not... they like me. but yeah its a lossing proposition if your not jet li.

                  But the analogy of fighting with your shoes half off or gone is good for this. Because thats where you are taking a hostage shot with a slug.

                  But its better than not fighting at all. Which is what you will do with the buck or bird only abomination on the front page of this thread. Which was my original objection to the thing. its actually less functional than the average shotty. I just picked a reason that would stimulate a fun discussion.

                  Yes Zen its a low percentage move. But training a low percentage move is better than not having a move at all. And training it well makes the percentage better. not much better but shit. take what you can get.

                  Read me now?

                  Comment


                    #69
                    Ja, Comrade. I see your point better now.

                    I gave it some thought last night, and I could see a trained operator pulling it off. Dubious for a regular cat in a home invasion scenario, but its a "oh shit", worst-case tactic after all.

                    Sorry for being an opinionated asshole (well, not really).

                    Comment


                      #70
                      Originally posted by Zendetta
                      Ja, Comrade. I see your point better now.

                      I gave it some thought last night, and I could see a trained operator pulling it off. Dubious for a regular cat in a home invasion scenario, but its a "oh shit", worst-case tactic after all.

                      Sorry for being an opinionated asshole (well, not really).
                      admitting that you're not sorry is the first step....

                      to something...

                      or somewhere...

                      I guess

                      Comment


                        #71
                        LOL.

                        You gonna be in Asheville over Christmas?

                        Comment


                          #72
                          Originally posted by Zendetta
                          LOL.

                          You gonna be in Asheville over Christmas?
                          nope...

                          prolly not till summer maybe

                          depends on work and union organizing progress

                          Comment


                            #73
                            Too bad. We could smoke some weed and argue politcs.

                            Comment


                              #74
                              And now we all love each other again.

                              Comment


                                #75
                                Hey Antifa, incomming PM

                                And now we all love each other again.
                                I blame Aikido

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