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  • UpaLumpa
    replied
    Originally posted by Garbanzo Bean
    Depends on the instructor. Very few that I've encountered are this organized. My old school had beginners' nights for newbies to combat this sensation of jumping headfirst into a new sport. Old hands were welcome to come, but were more there to help teach and refine techniques (and get some roll time in) than they were to learn.

    Some instructors just start tossing things against the wall, hoping some of it will stick.
    That's how things are run at my school as well. There is a "fundamentals" class that reviews a basic syllabus of things but normal classes are more eclectic (usually focusing on one area, e.g. gi chokes, for a week) without a lot of the formal background.

    My instructor only recently started teaching full time and I think the pattern of classes is a carry-over from when he learned by doing a private once a month and then driving back to red neck central to teach his buddies.

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  • Cassius
    replied
    Originally posted by fitz31
    Are most BJJ schools taught like this? The school I just started at does seem to have alot of structure. Just seems like the guy throws some things out there and your kinda at the mercy of your training partner to give you the fine details. seems very hard for me to feel like i am doing anything but crappling. I really like the "SBGi Coaching model" and I learned more in 15mins reading your post then I have in 5 weeks I have been doing BJJ
    Depends on the instructor. Very few that I've encountered are this organized. My old school had beginners' nights for newbies to combat this sensation of jumping headfirst into a new sport. Old hands were welcome to come, but were more there to help teach and refine techniques (and get some roll time in) than they were to learn.

    Some instructors just start tossing things against the wall, hoping some of it will stick.

    Leave a comment:


  • fitz31
    replied
    Are most BJJ schools taught like this? The school I just started at does seem to have alot of structure. Just seems like the guy throws some things out there and your kinda at the mercy of your training partner to give you the fine details. seems very hard for me to feel like i am doing anything but crappling. I really like the "SBGi Coaching model" and I learned more in 15mins reading your post then I have in 5 weeks I have been doing BJJ

    Leave a comment:


  • neooftheosiris
    replied
    Are you going to really ingrain "Position before Submission"?

    Leave a comment:


  • Bustardo
    replied
    At my very first class we did something very similar. I wasn't taught any submissions at all, but learned a lot of positioning.

    Being a BJJ noob it's good to know that I'm doing things that are fairly standard.

    Leave a comment:


  • FLMikeATT
    replied
    I love your idea of starting out new guys on Reverse omoplatas and the crucifix Aesopian. For all that is sacred in this world, you should do this as an experiment, and watch his development closely to see if it makes a difference. If you did this, I think I would have to send you $50 bucks in the mail for being so awesome.

    Leave a comment:


  • G8
    replied
    me read whole thread? that hard, make head tired.

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  • Cassius
    replied
    Originally posted by G8
    inasmuch as you're using the mount demo as a de facto sales pitch, maybe it'd be a good idea to employ someone a bit more advanced than a blue or experienced white, particularly if the new guy is large or athletic. Rorion I'm sure can hold the mount against damn near anyone who comes through the door, but the illustration would lose a lot of its impact if your top guy were to get bucked off.
    If you were to read the entire thread, you would find that de Lima has been doing this for years, so apparently it isn't that bad.

    Leave a comment:


  • G8
    replied
    inasmuch as you're using the mount demo as a de facto sales pitch, maybe it'd be a good idea to employ someone a bit more advanced than a blue or experienced white, particularly if the new guy is large or athletic. Rorion I'm sure can hold the mount against damn near anyone who comes through the door, but the illustration would lose a lot of its impact if your top guy were to get bucked off.

    Leave a comment:


  • UpaLumpa
    replied
    While I agree in general with you that in someways it doesn't matter, I tend to take the approach I mentioned above (i.e. go over positions) as it will provide a context for later classes. As for your rev-omoplata scenario, you would probably have great results, that transfer across techniquess. You'd also probably end up with someone with a really fluid game.

    Leave a comment:


  • Aesopian
    replied
    As for passing from knees or standing, I can find you an equal number of black belts on both sides of the issue, and I know all the arguments for and counter-arguments against either way.

    So basically I think it's a personal preference and doesn't really matters.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cassius
    replied
    Originally posted by Aesopian
    First line. And Garbanzo Bean asked to read it.
    He could have just sent it to me, but he decided to post it in DHS, thereby enriching the most important forum on the internet.

    Leave a comment:


  • Boyd
    replied
    I know what you mean. On my first night in karate, I was taught how to deflect a punch using gedan barrai, grasp the wrist in a manner remniscent of a particular bunkai from Seiuchin, and return fire with a shuto strike to the upper lip. While definitely an "advanced" move, I used it constantly in the sparring matches I held in my head.

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  • Zankou
    replied
    Honestly I think the first day should just:

    [1] Keep them safe.
    [2] Let them have fun and build excitement about bjj.

    There doesn't need to be much emphasis on learning. It's just intro. They could be learning ankle locks for all I care, so long as they don't get hurt and get excited about bjj.

    Leave a comment:


  • Aesopian
    replied
    I find the topic of what to teach first and how to structure lessons interesting, but what I'm finding especially interesting is how little it seems to matter. Assuming you're teaching good techniques, it seems that anything will do as a first lesson.

    I'll give you some examples.

    I know someone who teaches a first lesson that consists of butterfly guard sweeps where you drive forward and stand up. His reason for this is because he finds that new people are more comfortable doing this than closing their guard on a stranger. It also teaches them to come on top as soon as they can, and since this may be his only lesson with them, he wants them to at least learn to create space, stand up and be able to run away in a self defense situation.

    Those reasons are as good as any for me, but I'm sure some will object to starting them with an open guard, since that's supposed to be more advanced.

    So on to another example.

    I know a purple belt who was running open mats on the weekend at his school, and one day a woman showed up who wanted to try BJJ. They warned her that they were just going to work on whatever they felt like and that it wasn't going to be a normal class. She said that was fine and trained with them. She ended up learning nothing but x-guard.

    Now I can already hear your gasps of outrage. "X-guard! To a white belt! Have you no moral conscious?" But here's where it gets good.

    Later that week, my friend saw her training in a normal class. She was sparring and someone stood to pass her guard. She went straight to x-guard and swept them. She just did what she knew.

    Another example of a first class, going to the opposite end of things, away from "advanced" moves.

    This same friend first started BJJ back in 1992, before the UFCs made it cool, by visiting California and doing a single class at The Gracie Academy in Torrence. He said that it started with a private lesson from Rorion, who would do like I wrote above and mount the person and tell them to try to escape. He'd effortlessly stay on top. Then he'd reverse it and tell them to mount him and try to hold him down. Then he'd effortlessly upa escape over and over again. He'd then teach the upa and have them go train with the rest of the class.

    Technique-wise, my friend only really left knowing the upa, but that was never really what mattered. The point of the lesson was to sell you on BJJ. It made him think "How can this guy hold me down so easily? This must just be impossible to escape this!" Then it made him think "This guy must have incredible knowledge if he can escape this easily!" Then it gave him his first bite of BJJ and he saw how simple it was. He then went back to all his fellow kempo buddies and was their premier ground fighter, being the only one who could upa.

    So there is an example of the first lesson being almost exclusively as a sale.

    Here's my personal example. It's wasn't my first class, but on probably my second no-gi night ever, in my first month of BJJ, I learned the reverse omoplata. At the time, it was as complicated and unusual as any other move in BJJ. So I just drilled it like I would any other move and it was given no special tag as a beginner or advanced move.

    We all know how this turned out.

    Consider all the different first lessons that are taught in all the different schools. I doubt one of them has THE LESSON that gives them the edge over all others just because they taught it on the first day.

    So while I don't mind people commenting on what they would change in the lesson I wrote, or what they would teach instead, you'll have to forgive me if I'm not particular open to changing it.

    Here's what I'll do.

    At some point in the future, I will probably have a brand new student all to myself. Maybe I'll grab some kid out of my neighborhood and teach him in my new backyard training center. His first lesson is going to consist of defending the single leg by taking the crucifix. Then I'll move on to the basic crucifix choke and I'll finish with the reverse omoplata. From then on, we'll continue with all of the normal stuff like scissors sweeps, side control escapes, etc. But I'll keep returning to his "basics" on the crucifix and reverse omoplata.

    Maybe I will be toying in the realm meant only for the BJJ Gods by doing this and will scar my white belt for life. Or maybe I'll just get a guy who does what everyone else does but also throws in a bunch of reverse omoplatas. These are risks I'm willing to take.
    Last edited by Aesopian; 9/28/2006 12:36pm, .

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