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Reevaluating Reaping

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    Reevaluating Reaping

    I am tall. I have long legs. I should be the kind of duder who is reaping and tripping my way to LOL IPPON. I learned bunches of these little bastards back in Daito-ryu, and unlike virtually everything else in that wad of confederate money of a martial art, they are actually used in competition.
    So what gives? Whenever I am trying such as De-ashi-harai or Ko-Uchi-Gari they are just high stepping and dancing out and I am left feeling rather stupid and alone, swishing my foot around on the mat. Sure this could lead into a shot, but if I wanted to do that, why am I not starting with a shot setup like pushing their shoulders or armdragging?
    And god help me if I try Osotogari, for I will be counter crossfaced and look basicly a lot like Travis Fulton.
    Recently i've discovered what I think is the root of the problem: Reap the knee, not the foot or even the calf. It provides so much more of a comfortable fitting-in feeling. I am especially besotted of O-uchi-gari from an underhook where I have jacked their arm and shoulder up. A lot like this.
    Concurrent with this, I read this article which just confirms that Judoka are not to be trusted, and will steal your newspaper and fuck your girlfriend even while they pretend to be showing you all these cool throws.
    Anyway the feeling of "driving" rather than "tripping" is much more natural is what i'm trying to get across here. Which I probably should have known beforehand...after all, when was the last time I swept anyone competent from guard by kicking their foot out?

    So you are reaping a leg that has no weight on it (i.e. they can step with it)?


      I agree, sounds like either you are too slow with your entry or your kuzushi isn't strong enough.

      I've felt it many times myself. I go in thinking I'm gonna reap that leg sky high. And I end up nearly tripping myself from the swing through nothing but air as they step back. Recovering from it is a bitch since people usually take good advantage of that.

      And the reason I checked out this thread is because I thought it read "Reevaluating Raping"


        What Locu5 said: attack the leg with weight on it. I have the most success with de ashi when they're stepping forward and have already transferred the weight to that leg, but haven't let it touch the mat yet. If you want to do de ashi on a forward leg when they're shifting their weight to the rear, it's a little bit trickier. You'll have to cup their ankle with your foot and try to hold it in the air long enough to allow you to use your hands to yank them to the side and down. Think "sticky feet." It's never as quick a throw as the other almost feels like you're felling a tree. Your opponent's fall will start off slow, but he'll gradually tilt more and more until he finally hits the mat.

        The only time I have success with osoto gari is when I use it in combination with ouchi. Say I try to perform right side ouchi gari, but my opponent manages to pick up his leg. At this point, I'll take a huge step with my left foot and lunge across his body to the other side, dragging his upper body with me and planting my left in the classical osoto position. By this time, I have good chest to chest contact, my left hand is yanking my opponent's elbow directly down, his weight is 100% over his right leg, his left is waving helplessly in the air, and he's bent backwards and tottering. You almost don't even need to reap with your right leg at this point. I haven't been able to pull off one of those fancy 45 degree osoto gari's yet. Maybe that's something I'll work on this week.


          Are you telling him to reap the un-weighted leg?


            I'm having trouble visualizing. You move in to reap with your right leg, he steps back onto his, and then you attack the other leg by . . . turning around and reaping his left with yours? Using your right to reap the inside of his left? Tickling his fancy?

            As far as sweeps go, Jaxon is correct. Catch the leg as it's coming forward, but just before it's set down onto the ground. Getting this timing takes a fair bit of practice.

            I've also noticed that a lot of people unconsciously push the person away, sort of mirroring their foot movement with their arms. Instead, you need to be turning the pther person as you sweep -- at least that's what works for me.

            For example, if you're going after their right leg, grip them under the tricep on that side and behind the neck on the other. Use these grips to turn them -- not only to stretch out the timing of their step, but during the sweep itself.


              To take reaping to its natural terminus. Imagine a one-legged man, now make everyone you fight stand on one leg. Then attack that leg.

              The knee height thing is a nice adjustment but it is secondary to good kuzushi.


                The guys from the BJJ school that came in and tapped me out four times in 60 seconds made me a believer too.


                  Originally posted by Don Gwinn
                  They don't start out cripples, you have to cripple them yourself.

                  I don't know any fancy Judo words, but after getting slammed around by an internatonal-caliber judoka this weekend I'm a believer.
                  Lower back and knee injuries/issues are frequent in Judo.


                    Mostly an assload uchikomi to kake, we tend to get more full repititions when practicing the single-leg and double-leg variations that we do. Before a tournament, those competing start sparring from their feet a couple weeks out.
                    Last edited by Locu5; 9/25/2006 12:54pm, .


                      Originally posted by El Macho
                      And ankles, too :( Honestly, I find it a lot easier to be thrown/fall on my back that on my sides. I can't breakfall properly for shit if I'm falling on my left side.
                      jamming fingers during grip fight was pretty freaking painfull...i def. don't miss that.


                        I agree, sounds like either you are too slow with your entry or your kuzushi isn't strong enough.
                        I was weened on single legs and jumping to guard sweeps so i'm used to takedowns and sweeps that kindof contain their own offbalancing within the motion of the attack. So doing these "driver" reaps feel more natural because the offbalancing is accomplished with the underhook, bumping with the shoulder, and raising his hooked leg with my own. I'll be honest, i'm terrible at the psychological game of trickery.

                        My other problem has usually been that the hunched over posture used in BJJ takes away a lot of sweeps that would normally work on someone standing higher.

                        Another discovery: Armdragging with a captured arm makes both osoto and hip throws so much less risky.
                        For instance, you are armdragging and their upper body pulls back, this is a perfect time for osoto. They drive into you, you keep the arm in place, but do something like a drop ippon seoi. Their arm is across your back, so they have no base, and the risk of your back being taken is much reduced.


                          Hedge, my advice for sweeps is get used to attacking both legs with both right and left sweeps until you feel their upper body start to move a little (sometimes people will move their feet but they keep their torso locked in a single position, you have to wait until you can feel them "get light" in the shoulders).

                          When you feel them move around a little, pull the lapel you have a grip on to the outside at an approximate 90 degree angle to and sweep the same side ankle on the back quarter. While you do the sweep, you want to feel as though you are driving your chest toward them (this will add power to the sweep). As the person loses balance, snap your hand toward the ground to add power the the throw and prevent the person from catching themselves.

                          I hope my rambling helps. My e-grapple is still weak.


                            Originally posted by hedgehogey
                            My other problem has usually been that the hunched over posture used in BJJ takes away a lot of sweeps that would normally work on someone standing higher.
                            There are other throws you can do when hunched over posture (like wrestler low hunch you mean right?). Sweeps are hard to pull against opponents in that stance.

                            I can think of two throws you can probably attempt.
                            sumi gaeshi
                            tomoe nage
                            tawara gaeshi

                            edit: oh i forget to mention. you always have option of flowing techniques together too. for example, opponent is hunched over so grab his gi and tug him down hard or if no-gi. snap his head down or push his head down (like in wrestling). Kuzushi~

                            When opponent pushes up or try to regain balance by going up. rush forward and go for ouchi gake or gari. if that fails, while still pushing forward. switch to kouchi gake or gari. if that doesn't work go for single leg or double leg takedown (morote gari or wrestling style) whatever works.

                            Sorry for rambling. i had too much sugar today.
                            Last edited by babo78; 9/26/2006 10:53am, .



                              Let me chime in a moment - hopefully with stuff not already covered - because I can't be fucked to read all that crap.

                              I have long legs too. 32in inseam. Not incredibly long but longer than most in my weight. I also prefer the trips for my throws. Specifically Tsurikomi, Kosoto, etc.

                              I have trouble going for reaps because I am tall as well. I feel like I get bent over backwards too easily. Everyone here is yelling KUZUSHI KUZUSHI! Like STFU already. We got it. When you are sparring or competing it aint always that easy or your opponent counters. Or you are just too fucking tired to get them off balance, but you realize they are probably too tired to defend so you just go for it.

                              Here is what I do for reaps:

                              I prefer O Uchi more than O Soto. My long legs allow me to get in deeper than most people think I can. And it works extremely well with Kosoto.

                              When I do use O Soto I do not use the traditional 'straight backwards' style. It is a more modern attack at the angle. Almost going sideways. On top of that it almost looks like Ashi Guruma in that I sometimes I cannot make body-to-body contact sometimes.

                              For illustrative purposes here is Ashi Guruma. Please realize I am not talking about using Ashi Guruma! I am talking about using O Soto in a more Ashi Guruma manner - but instead of forward you hook your ankle behind thier knee and go to the side:

                              Here is the kind of O Soto entry that I am talking about. Notice how he attacks to the side?

                              Here is an article talking about this kind of preference:

                              I use combinations of throws to put my opponent where I need him
                              1) Tsurikomi makes my opponent step forward, tiptoeing on his front foot. I then plant my tripping foot near his and step through for the O Osoto. All his weight is there, he is off balance and it is much easier.
                              2) Driving hard straight into them I alternate Kosoto with KoUchi in a traditional rally. The difference is that I will reach down and grab thier pants any opportunity I get. Then you can REALLY reap a base leg
                              3) Footsweeps set up everything. Tsurikomi to Tai Otoshi. But the reaps can set up hip throws like Harai. If you are a good footsweep guy you should really look at the 'big' throws like Harai and Uchi Mata to follow up with

                              BTW I am sure that a lot of people probably have trouble with this style of Judo. I don't care. You have to use modified Judo in BJJ and sub wrestling to be effective. There is a reason that using a bent over defensive stance in Judo gets you penalized - because it is effective in thwarting many Judo attacks - and so you need your modified techniques to be effective. It's real easy to talk about Kuzushi. It is much harder to actually get it done against a guy who is more concerned about pulling guard and NOT being thrown than opening his defenses up enough to get a throw of his own.
                              Last edited by Yrkoon9; 9/26/2006 11:49am, .



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