Bad form or use your genetics?

[NSLightsOut]

I'll see about the photos.

It's not something that can really be shown visually so much as felt.

[Mjelva]

NSLightsOut - Could you be arsed to make a picture series of this upa variation?

[NSLightsOut]

That's a matter of semantics. The two descriptions amount to the same thing

[UpaLumpa]

To add: Using strength isn't bad; it's just another tool. It becomes a problem when it replaces technique or reinforces bad technique.

Example: I rarely get armbarred and almost never by less than a purple. There are two reasons, 1) I have a great armbar defense, I stack properly and block their butt and more important earlier in my training 2) I still have massive reserve strength.

As a result I have the bad habit of baiting armbars (and triangles) too often. This will get me in trouble eventually. I know that but while rolling I still do it.

[UpaLumpa]

If someone has the mount on you and you are able to place your fists on or around their pelvis and basically press them up as you upa...is this generally considered a bad habit to get into as opposed to working to replace some type of guard and/or sweep?

If you're initially raising your hips off the ground, then begin pushing with your arms at your hips' maximal height, dropping your hips (continue pushing up with arms) and then bring a knee, or both through and regain guard; then this is actually a standard technique.

If you're just hurling the guy off you, you're a douche.

When I started bjj I was always the strongest or closest to strongest guy on the mat (of course I haven't lifted consistently since, so much for my 400lb bench). Even now, without regular lifting, I'm quite strong for my weight. Putting that aside is the best thing you can do for your game. And it's always there when you compete. Or if some former allstate hs wrestler weighing 220 wants to show the small guys (I'm down to 190) what's up and you want to assmaster him physically and technically.

[NSLightsOut]

The way I perform my mount escape, my palms are sitting on my opponent's thighs. Putting the palm heels on the hips is actually less energy-efficient then doing it my preferred way of using thumb and forefingers in the groove between hips and thighs, and it opens you up to your wrist lock.

Honestly, I'd think of the wristlock against mount escape as a move that wouldn't really work against someone of much technical skill.

[NSLightsOut]

You must be visualizing it improperly

I very well could be.

Question: Was the guy the black belt was demoing on pushing as I've described, or with the heels of the palms against the hips?

[NSLightsOut]

Trap the palm against your pelvis with your forearm, sink back and bend the hand back.

I tried this out today. It isn't possible.

Try to visualise this. My thumb and the side of my first fingers are pushing into the groove formed between your hips and the top of your thighs. My palm is generally barely touching your thigh.

In addition, what you're describing takes time Unless you happen to have an exceptional mount, you are going to go flying if confronted by someone good with this escape. It's a little impractical to execute this while the guy you're sitting on is bucking like a bronco.

(To put this into perspective: I can count the people who've stayed on me for 30 seconds or longer in the last two years on one hand. Two of them were black belts. I still have a finger left over)

Best defense, IMO, against a good mount escape is to bail to side-control or knee-ride when you feel destabilized.

[Camus]

I don't know that there's anything horribly wrong with using alotta strength in rolling, so long as you've the stamina to keep using it for awhile and you work low intensity also to keep up your technique.

In fact, one of the problems I've had is going too soft most of the time. Then just last night I was rolling relatively light with one of our blue belts about my weight (although stocky rather than lean) and we turned it up about 20 times, I latched onto my armlock (trademark move) when he went to his side, rolled him over and threw my leg over for kimura. Before the guy even tapped his arm popped. He claims he tapped before he screamed in pain, I swear to god he didn't and he definately didn't say 'tap', but man it made me feel like shit the rest of the night.

Why am I going on about this? Well, the trouble I've had is that while I have some training partners who are tougher than steel and can stand your whole body cranking an RNC on them and then go on to tap you 30 min of nonstop rolling later, some guys just aren't built that way and their physique is not always the best indicated of that toughness. And so when you train with tough guys and using a ton of strength all the time, you can hurt other dudes unintentionally, even with good technique. This had been my main problem and hurting your training partners really really bites.

[Cassius]

Question: Has anyone had any experience with somebody so huge and powerful they barely needed technique and thus had problems learning finesse in their techniques? How did they work around it?

Yes, I fought a guy like that in the last tournament and I don't think he has ever bothered to learn much technique. 6'6"+ and weighed in at 333. KhorneliusPraxx saw him. I weighed in at 243 for the tourney, and he literally grabbed both sides of my collar, picked me up by them, and threw me down. The guy that faced him after actually got backmounted on him, but Gojira just smothered him. It was disturbing.

He ended up just forcing my body to the mat and getting a kimura.

Hence my recent obsession with improving my bottom game.

On the other hand, a guy that weighed about 400 pounds used to train at our school, and he actually had fairly good technique for his size. He was pretty gentle.

For me, learning good technique has always been a result of me asking myself "Can I do what I'm doing right now for the next 20 minutes, or will my muscles tire out from it?" For the basic game, if the answer is "I'm going to get really tired," then I try to relax, stop using strength, and pick a better option.

[Red Elvis]

Question: Has anyone had any experience with somebody so huge and powerful they barely needed technique and thus had problems learning finesse in their techniques? How did they work around it?

Yes and I don't know. The guy ripped my collar bone from my sternum and after I came back from months of healing and no training he was gone. Fucker... :confused1

[Shawarma]

Question: Has anyone had any experience with somebody so huge and powerful they barely needed technique and thus had problems learning finesse in their techniques? How did they work around it?

[Red Elvis]

Shit, my problem has always been the opposite. Typically people are bigger and stronger then me so I am used to relying on my speed and technique. There is also plenty of room for me to move around them. The people who give me the most problems ironically are guys my size and speed. Not used to dealing with people as fast as me and it turns into a friggen cat fight blur of action. Good for the 'ol cardio though.

As for the push on the hips escape. Easily solved when they tuck in their legs or grapevine.

The best grappling compliment I've ever recived was from a purple belt at another school that said that I "rolled like a little guy." .

I'm offended! :icon_mad:

But in all seriousness I had a instructor who could and did play all games. He also tought what worked best for your size and style which was awesome. Have never found that since. It was funny wathcing him roll because he was always just a little better than the guy he was with. One minute you'd see him with a blue and think "man, is that all he's got". Then you'd see him with another black and he'd still just barely be ahead. But he was always ahead whether playing light and fast against a purple or big and strong against a black. Weird.

[NSLightsOut]

I'm trying to imagine how one could wristlock from here, and I'm failing.

Please share the technique

[Aesopian]

Revelent Thorntonism:

How do you know if you are training technically?

You have to ask yourself if you are pacthing up weaknesses in your game, technical holes, areas where you may lack skill, with superior attributes. And if you are, you have to willing to shelf your own ego long enough to stop doing that.

In other words, if you can rip out of an armbar using explosiveness and speed, or escape a triangle by picking up your opponent, or escape bottom by bench pressing the person on top. . .should you?

The answer is an obvious no. Within the Gym you want your training to be as technical as possible. So if you are getting caught with armbars, find out WHY? And then find a technical solution that will work against larger and stronger opponents. This way, when you find yourself matched against a bigger, stronger, faster opponent, you will still have game.

Although this seems like common sense, it is often very hard for some people to do. And those athletes that have trouble doing this will eventually find themselves falling behind the others in the class. They may dominate at first with superior athleticism. But as time passes and the smaller athletes gain more skill, they will eventually find themselves getting caught. And this is where a mature Coach needs to speak to the athlete one on one about how and why they train.

Does this mean we don't want to seek to become stronger and faster?

Asolutely not!

We want to train the body, the vehicle, as well as the skillset. We just want to make sure that the power of the vehicle is not masking a technical hole in the game of the driver.

That way when our athletes enter competition they will have a strong, and in shape body, AND a high level of technical proficiency. Not a strong and in shape body, in place of a technical proficiency.