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Okay experts explain to me why we don't see this at high level competition

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    #31
    Originally posted by goodlun View Post
    Huh, very interesting, saw Mat Thompson I think it was talking about some old school passing where you don't grip at all.
    So what are you doing instead, is it just framing?
    Regarding newaza,

    I do a lot of framing, closed swimmer hands monkey paws, and when I am top, letting gravity do the work.

    I often will make use of the other person's grips.

    Every once in a while I will take a light grip, ready to totally abandon it,

    or in very defined situations where my hands are very protected take an "I mean it grip", but I do so sparingly.

    If you go back and watch the KG videos I shared with you,

    you will likely see in the video of me 25 years ago, compared to the video of me now, doing the almost identical series,

    that I don't bother with gripping anymore in that series.

    I just let the weight and the other person do the work, and monkey paw a bit or keep relaxed arms and hands.
    Last edited by Dr. Gonzo; 1/01/2020 4:31pm, .

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      #32
      Originally posted by goodlun View Post
      Alright, so I keep seeing "slick moves" on Facebook and they always get my spider sense tingling as to well if that is so cool why don't we see it.
      I would like this thread dedicated to more than the one I am sharing in this post, cause these things come up a lot.
      So if you can a refute my premise as being false cool.
      However if you can break down why these moves don't work under world class pressure even better.
      Don't get me wrong these all seem like they would work against someone that you can already beat 1,000,000 other ways.

      That being said lets all know I am on top of Mount Stupid when it comes to this shit.

      Anyways up 1st check out this slick Toe Hold from side control to a frame that a lot of elite level competiors use(though I have also seen it chided)

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4R_...ature=youtu.be

      Much thanks for your incites.
      Yea, Thats a freebie when they block the mount that way. Its a great move.
      The Caucasian always has stronger strength and when comes to grappling, Caucasians mostly win easily. I do know grappling and if I used it on Asians my size, it works. - Kung Fu dude that got waxed at OneFc try out.

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        #33
        Originally posted by Krampus View Post
        Regarding newaza,

        I do a lot of framing, closed swimmer hands monkey paws, and when I am top, letting gravity do the work.

        I often will make use of the other person's grips.

        Every once in a while I will take a light grip, ready to totally abandon it,

        or in very defined situations where my hands are very protected take an "I mean it grip", but I do so sparingly.

        If you go back and watch the KG videos I shared with you,

        you will likely see in the video of me 25 years ago, compared to the video of me now, doing the almost identical series,

        that I don't bother with gripping anymore in that series.

        I just let the weight and the other person do the work, and monkey paw a bit or keep relaxed arms and hands.
        See I would have ignorantly called the monkey paws grips, but I can see what you mean.
        Of the single rapier fight between valiant men, having both skill, he that is the best wrestler, or if neither of them can wrestle, the strongest man most commonly kills the other, or leaves him at his mercy.
        –George Silver, Paradoxes of Defence

        Comment


          #34
          Originally posted by goodlun View Post
          See I would have ignorantly called the monkey paws grips, but I can see what you mean.
          When I grip, I engage my forearm muscles, and that burns calories, and generates lactic acid.

          When I monkey paw, I keep my forearms relaxed, and my arms move fluidly, in a relaxed manner.

          Relaxed limbs creates an illusion that I have quicker reaction times than I actually do,

          especially if my opponent is exerting his or her own limbs.

          I gladly ride and sometimes add to, rather than resist, whatever newtonian vectors of force my opponent provides.

          The more energy my opponent puts into the system, the less work I have to do,

          unless the force they provide completely blasts through me,

          and I cannot subtly redirect it.

          This is the principle of giving your opponent what they want but serving it to them in a manner that works against their original intention and own interest.

          Comment


            #35
            Originally posted by goodlun View Post
            See I would have ignorantly called the monkey paws grips, but I can see what you mean.
            When I grip, I engage my forearm muscles, and that burns calories, and generates lactic acid.

            When I monkey paw, I keep my forearms relaxed, and my arms move fluidly, in a relaxed manner.

            Relaxed limbs creates an illusion that I have quicker reaction times than I actually do,

            especially if my opponent is exerting his or her own limbs.

            I gladly ride and sometimes add to rather than resist whatever newtonian vectors of force my opponent provides.

            The more energy my opponent puts into the system, the less work I have to do,

            unless the force they provide completely blasts through me,

            and I cannot subtly redirect it.

            This is the principle of giving your opponent what they want but serving it to them in a manner that works against their original intention and own interest.

            In Japanese, this is an example application of “Ju”, or yielding, and Kano wrote about the principle of Ju at length.
            Last edited by Dr. Gonzo; 1/01/2020 5:39pm, .

            Comment


              #36
              I am 100% sure you have seen these before



              or the full thing:

              Of the single rapier fight between valiant men, having both skill, he that is the best wrestler, or if neither of them can wrestle, the strongest man most commonly kills the other, or leaves him at his mercy.
              –George Silver, Paradoxes of Defence

              Comment


                #37
                Originally posted by goodlun View Post
                I am 100% sure you have seen these before



                or the full thing:

                Everyone watches Mifune Sensei, and he did give an amazing display of Judo.

                But, watch his ukes just as closely.

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                  #38
                  Originally posted by Dr. Gonzo View Post
                  Everyone watches Mifune Sensei, and he did give an amazing display of Judo.

                  But, watch his ukes just as closely.
                  And of course the legendary animosity between Mifune and Kimura is an interesting tale.

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Oh so speaking of the Monkey paw thing, I can now see how Gordon Ryan is applying it in this match:

                    Of the single rapier fight between valiant men, having both skill, he that is the best wrestler, or if neither of them can wrestle, the strongest man most commonly kills the other, or leaves him at his mercy.
                    –George Silver, Paradoxes of Defence

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Originally posted by goodlun View Post
                      Thank you for humoring me with a response, I greatly appreciate it.
                      I hope you don't mind me comparing what you have said to others

                      If I am following you right
                      I have certainly have heard of this concept, Ryan Hall, Danaher, and Lister have all basically expressed this idea.
                      Especially with regards to leg locks, basically force people into a game where your skilled and they are not.
                      In fact I would say that is what BJJ is about right, take the fight to the ground and be the shark



                      Indeed the fundamentals seem to be a very key place to focus for sure.
                      One only really need to look at Kron Gracies back to basics approach run.

                      So getting back to videos I am going to assume unless you have a big name, putting out a fundamentals video isn't going to get a lot of clicks.
                      But if you put out a "They won't see this coming choke" one is likely to.
                      A concept from team sports is how teams match up in various positions.

                      So a big part of team sports, is maximizing your match up vs the other team.

                      For example, in football, at HS level, coaches will test say, a cornerback vs a particular WR, both pass and run.

                      If one corner is stronger than the other, they will not go against him nearly as much.

                      Works same in individual sports.

                      If your say at Olympic level in Judo you have different game plans for all the different players those game plans Also may vary depending on where in the draw you are matched up with them.

                      So you have to have a coach to understand the strengths and weaknesses of all your potential opponents.

                      Depending on how and how you match up you might have really only one chance to beat particular opponent in a match and you will have trained for that particular moment for that particular person. Of course spontaneous stuff happens but at the highest levels not so much.

                      Individual player will literally hire other judoka to pretend to be their potential opponents same size weight reach Etc, and they will drill and RanDori against those hired uke.
                      Falling for Judo since 1980

                      "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

                      "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

                      "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Originally posted by Dr. Gonzo View Post
                        And of course the legendary animosity between Mifune and Kimura is an interesting tale.
                        Wait what?
                        Of the single rapier fight between valiant men, having both skill, he that is the best wrestler, or if neither of them can wrestle, the strongest man most commonly kills the other, or leaves him at his mercy.
                        –George Silver, Paradoxes of Defence

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Originally posted by goodlun View Post
                          Wait what?
                          Kimura's wife got TB.

                          To raise money for Western medical treatments, Kimura took up professional fighting, and also pro-wrestling.

                          Mifune thought this was unbecoming and had Kimura kicked out of the Kodokan.

                          Kimura was still very popular, and there was some backlash.

                          For instance, none of Mifune's katas got included in the official Kodokan curriculum of katas.

                          Kimura was eventually reinstated as a coach and professor.

                          Mifune, in his final film, is shown delicately trimming hedges with precise shears.

                          When Kimura was filmed, he made a point to be filmed trimming his hedges with a chainsaw.

                          The Japanese are both subtle and unsubtle at the same time, aren't they....

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Originally posted by Dr. Gonzo View Post
                            Of course not.

                            I tell all my university and grapple-fu students, "don't believe anything I say, unless you can prove it for yourself".

                            And, I much prefer people I teach in those environments to disagree with me, and think for themselves, than the contrary.

                            Very true, sadly.

                            People are always fascinated with flash moves, hot moves, etc., etc.

                            A good example in Judo is the phenomenon that people tend to see and watch for the finish.

                            Even the names of the throws are usually the names of the finish.

                            Meanwhile, all the magic was the posture, grips, footwork, off balance, and entry that resulted in the finish becoming available...
                            Yeah, watching a good match with knowledgeable judoka you get a lot of reactions the stuff outside of a big throw.

                            It's easier to see stuff from afar since when you're involved in to match personally.
                            Falling for Judo since 1980

                            "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

                            "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

                            "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Originally posted by Dr. Gonzo View Post
                              When I do newaza, gi or no gi, I barely grip at all.

                              And even when I do standing Judo, my grips are very light.
                              Good example of adjusting to particular physical condition.

                              Although not gripping a lot is a is a high-level skill.

                              And I when to hold on to a grip and when to let go is really important to.

                              These sorts of things take years to learn.
                              Falling for Judo since 1980

                              "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

                              "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

                              "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Originally posted by Dr. Gonzo View Post
                                Everyone watches Mifune Sensei, and he did give an amazing display of Judo.

                                But, watch his ukes just as closely.
                                Yeah, back on an old judo Forum there was a guy who actually was mifune uke.

                                He basically said the same thing.
                                Falling for Judo since 1980

                                "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

                                "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

                                "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

                                Comment

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