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Favourite Escapes WITH DETAILS You Learnt Later That Changed The Game

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    #46
    Originally posted by Wooden Mike
    I believe these mind maps are from Emily's DVD series (which I don't own and should probably buy..). She's done a whole bunch of these,

    My blue belt was so close I can still taste it. As soon as I get my knee fixed up...

    http://www.bjjlegends.com/index.php/...-by-emily-kwok


    Jesus Christ that's a hell of a lot of maps you've got there....

    Comment


      #47
      Originally posted by BKR View Post
      You redeemed yourseklf in the second sentence, thankfully. Sort of, anyway.

      So, at what age do you teach Seoi Otoshi (on knees) ?
      Depends on what age the kid starts and if they are going to compete. Also depends on their relative size compared to their opponents.

      Seoi-otoshi or what I originally learned as drop-knee seoi-nage, is a great throw for a shorter person to do on a taller person who likes to walk forward or go for an overhand grip.

      Also note that the head coach of our club insists on teaching it right at the beginning to all the kids, so it skews my numbers somewhat. I would, if given my own druthers, NOT teach that throw so early as he does. But since they have ALREADY been taught it, and are ALREADY using it in tournaments and randori to varying degrees of success, I tend to just correct the form and keep my grumbling to myself.

      That said, I will stand by the idea that if you want to win in competition, you have to do the things that competitors do. And one of them is two-knee seoi-otoshi.
      At least enough to know how to counter it.

      The first 6 throws we teach are O-soto, O-Goshi, Seoi-nage/Seoi-otoshi, Hiza-Guruma, De ashi Barai, and O-Uchi Gari.

      Typically players will find SOMETHING in there that works for them.
      They are the first 6 throws on our yellow/orange belt requirements as well.
      And, according to the head coach, when the test was devised and for many years there-after, they were the top throws in the world at the World Championships and the Olympics.

      I have recently seen some data to suggest that either that was NOT true or it is no longer true. But at this point, the club has been running this way since 1980. Who am I to challenge tradition? At least any more than I already am.
      For instance I refuse to teach going to your stomach as a pin defense.

      Comment


        #48
        Originally posted by AcerTempest View Post
        Depends on what age the kid starts and if they are going to compete. Also depends on their relative size compared to their opponents.

        Seoi-otoshi or what I originally learned as drop-knee seoi-nage, is a great throw for a shorter person to do on a taller person who likes to walk forward or go for an overhand grip.

        Also note that the head coach of our club insists on teaching it right at the beginning to all the kids, so it skews my numbers somewhat. I would, if given my own druthers, NOT teach that throw so early as he does. But since they have ALREADY been taught it, and are ALREADY using it in tournaments and randori to varying degrees of success, I tend to just correct the form and keep my grumbling to myself.

        That said, I will stand by the idea that if you want to win in competition, you have to do the things that competitors do. And one of them is two-knee seoi-otoshi.
        At least enough to know how to counter it.

        The first 6 throws we teach are O-soto, O-Goshi, Seoi-nage/Seoi-otoshi, Hiza-Guruma, De ashi Barai, and O-Uchi Gari.

        Typically players will find SOMETHING in there that works for them.
        They are the first 6 throws on our yellow/orange belt requirements as well.
        And, according to the head coach, when the test was devised and for many years there-after, they were the top throws in the world at the World Championships and the Olympics.

        I have recently seen some data to suggest that either that was NOT true or it is no longer true. But at this point, the club has been running this way since 1980. Who am I to challenge tradition? At least any more than I already am.
        For instance I refuse to teach going to your stomach as a pin defense.
        Fair enough, you are in a tough situation. This is what happens when all anybody cares about is short-term success in competition, especially for young kids.

        Designing a syllabus based on competition success at high-level, adult judo events I have thought to be silly for a long time. I've of course heard of coaches doing that for decades.

        The only issue I have is with the Seoi Otoshi, the other throws are fine, although depending on age of the kids involved often need to be modified.

        Long term athlete development is more important than short-term competition success. A lot of people do not see it that way, though.
        Falling for Judo since 1980

        "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

        "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

        "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

        Comment


          #49
          Originally posted by Gumby View Post
          Jesus Christ that's a hell of a lot of maps you've got there....
          Different people think different ways. Some folks find it helpful to do elaborate diagrams or outlines, others, not so much.
          Falling for Judo since 1980

          "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

          "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

          "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

          Comment


            #50
            Originally posted by BKR View Post
            Different people think different ways. Some folks find it helpful to do elaborate diagrams or outlines, others, not so much.
            It was merely an attempt at humor that played off my previous response to his first map

            Comment


              #51
              Originally posted by BKR View Post
              Fair enough, you are in a tough situation. This is what happens when all anybody cares about is short-term success in competition, especially for young kids.

              Designing a syllabus based on competition success at high-level, adult judo events I have thought to be silly for a long time. I've of course heard of coaches doing that for decades.

              The only issue I have is with the Seoi Otoshi, the other throws are fine, although depending on age of the kids involved often need to be modified.

              Long term athlete development is more important than short-term competition success. A lot of people do not see it that way, though.
              I certainly think so. But many people disagree with me. Of course those people are mostly old. So I get to outlive them and do it however I want eventually. :)

              Still, I wonder what your specific issue is with Seoi Otoshi, and if you and Dr. Bregman have ever sat down and discussed it. As I am only a lowly Nidan, my opinion is only slightly more relevant than nothing, but I do wonder at the efficacy of teaching this technique as it does seem to lead to a throwing style that is not quite what the highest level people are doing.

              Comment


                #52
                The most recent escape that I've been playing with is the concept of shooting straight into slx from bottom mount. Whenever you hit any kind of forward shift with your knee, a bridge, attempted trap and roll, etc. you can drive your opponents hands to the mat above your head which accomplishes 2 goals:

                1) weight on the hands takes the weight off of their legs
                2) hands on the mat are hands that can't strangle you for a few seconds (or strike)

                Once you get hands to the mat you hunt inside position with your hands and connect both hands to the opponents' hips and bridge (often using an asymmetrical bridge to the shoulder)
                This brings the opponents hips up (or off of you) enough to slip your left knee in for example and your right foot around to connect the straight irimi ashi garami configuration (slx, single leg x).

                Then you can hit an immediate heel hook off of the mount escape.

                So first second you are under mount, 5 seconds later you are attacking the heelhook. Very effective.

                Good examples of athletes performing this are Garry Tonon and Ethan Crelenstein.

                Comment

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