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Cost and Benefit of differing leg arrangements when attacking ankle locks

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    #16
    Originally posted by Raycetpfl View Post
    This is my go to style for Ibjjf legal footlocks. I feel like it's the best way to actually be able to maim someone with a straight footlock.

    I love that! And for sure that's not a leg reap under IBJJF rules? I'm always confused as to what the tipping point is in foot position is that makes them call that.

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      #17
      Originally posted by Omega Supreme View Post
      Shamrocks approach is a more flow scramble approach. Not a big fan although I do practice it. I'm bigger fan of the "Game over" method as it slows the game down and allows for smoother transitions without much risk for injury.
      Gotcha. The game over is pretty new to me, but I like the concept a lot, as I prefer to do a slow grind style of grappling. That always presented issues for me when entering for leg locks, as it seemed like it became a race to who got the leg first. Hence the reasons I liked those knee compressions you showed when I came out to Valhalla, because I can control the position, then attack the joint without worry of an immediate counter.

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        #18
        Originally posted by Raycetpfl View Post
        NAGA and grapplers are ibjjf in the gi.

        Game over is just that. So you are asking me what would make me pick a position with like a 90% finish rate over a position that scrabbling is possible? If I am not black out drunk I choose game over.
        I see your point, I'm just going to have to work the position in my travels to see about making it truly "game over". I see where the straight ankle and heel hook come from in the game over position, is there a good way to flow to toe fold or knee bar? I'm a huge toe fold fan, it's my best leg lock.

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          #19
          Originally posted by Tramirezmma View Post
          I see your point, I'm just going to have to work the position in my travels to see about making it truly "game over". I see where the straight ankle and heel hook come from in the game over position, is there a good way to flow to toe fold or knee bar? I'm a huge toe fold fan, it's my best leg lock.
          Well not really because they can't move. They are fucked. There's no flow because it's the end of the road.
          I will post some escapes but it ain't easy bro.

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            #20
            Originally posted by Tramirezmma View Post
            I love that! And for sure that's not a leg reap under IBJJF rules? I'm always confused as to what the tipping point is in foot position is that makes them call that.
            Reaping is only if the outside foot passes over the middle of the hips. It's no where near the middle of the hip. I have a ibjjf ref. Cert., So that'd be my professional opinion.

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              #21
              Originally posted by Raycetpfl View Post
              Well not really because they can't move. They are fucked. There's no flow because it's the end of the road.
              I will post some escapes but it ain't easy bro.
              Preesh! Looking forward to it.

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                #22
                Originally posted by Raycetpfl View Post
                Reaping is only if the outside foot passes over the middle of the hips. It's no where near the middle of the hip. I have a ibjjf ref. Cert., So that'd be my professional opinion.
                Sweet, will use this explanation in the future.

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                  #23
                  Unfortunately its been a bit of time since I have trained.

                  Here is my 2 cents.

                  One your close enough to San Diego, save up enough to come down and do a private with Dean I don't know what they run but they are not THAT expensive.
                  I am a bit biased for reasons.
                  I would say he is the best overall teacher of foot locks and has the best top entries into leg locks around.
                  Besides being a fairly competent competitor is actually also a really good instructor with encyclopedic knowledge of grappling.
                  That grappling for MMA, Self Defense, IBJJF, and Submission Grappling.
                  While he is known for leg locks the rest of his game is seriously solid.

                  You are also close enough to drop in for a private lesson with Gokor.
                  These will likely run you more than a trip to victory.
                  While I have not trained with him myself. Its obvious the man knows what he is doing.
                  To me where he might outshine Dean a little is the Standing transitions to Leg Locks.
                  His take down work is top notch.

                  Then the next time you are out in NY Danaher is the man to see. Once again have not trained with him but from what I have seen.
                  His system of attacks makes a lot of use of Outside Ashi/Single Leg X
                  May have a slight edge on Dean when it comes to leg locks from the bottom.

                  Of these 3 gentlemen there does seem to be a preference for the outside reap.
                  For an inside reaping you might want to take a look at Ryan Hall's stuff.
                  Though once again you can get great 50/50 instruction from Dean.

                  Once again before you take any advice from me know that I stand right on the very peak of Mt Stupid when it comes to grappling stuff especially leg locks.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by goodlun View Post
                    Unfortunately its been a bit of time since I have trained.

                    Here is my 2 cents.

                    One your close enough to San Diego, save up enough to come down and do a private with Dean I don't know what they run but they are not THAT expensive.
                    I am a bit biased for reasons.
                    I would say he is the best overall teacher of foot locks and has the best top entries into leg locks around.
                    Besides being a fairly competent competitor is actually also a really good instructor with encyclopedic knowledge of grappling.
                    That grappling for MMA, Self Defense, IBJJF, and Submission Grappling.
                    While he is known for leg locks the rest of his game is seriously solid.

                    You are also close enough to drop in for a private lesson with Gokor.
                    These will likely run you more than a trip to victory.
                    While I have not trained with him myself. Its obvious the man knows what he is doing.
                    To me where he might outshine Dean a little is the Standing transitions to Leg Locks.
                    His take down work is top notch.

                    Then the next time you are out in NY Danaher is the man to see. Once again have not trained with him but from what I have seen.
                    His system of attacks makes a lot of use of Outside Ashi/Single Leg X
                    May have a slight edge on Dean when it comes to leg locks from the bottom.

                    Of these 3 gentlemen there does seem to be a preference for the outside reap.
                    For an inside reaping you might want to take a look at Ryan Hall's stuff.
                    Though once again you can get great 50/50 instruction from Dean.

                    Once again before you take any advice from me know that I stand right on the very peak of Mt Stupid when it comes to grappling stuff especially leg locks.
                    All solid recommendations, I appreciate the insight

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Originally posted by Tramirezmma View Post
                      All solid recommendations, I appreciate the insight
                      I think Dean has made his older KATCH leg lock videos freely available I know I got a legitmate download of it from somewhere.

                      edit maybe not the whole thing but there is this
                      http://www.bjj-super-deals.com/

                      He has a newer DVD out that is probably worth looking at.
                      Gokor and Hall both have decent enough DVDs.
                      I don't think Danaher has any sort of content right now.
                      Though there is a lot that can be seen by watching Eddie Cummings, Gordon Ryan, and Garry Tonon compete.
                      Especially at Flow Grappling and EBI.


                      Comment


                        #26
                        Originally posted by Tramirezmma View Post
                        I've always used the position where I "reap" with the outside leg, which ends up with my foot in the hip or lower abdomen. I then cover that foot with my inside foot to help prevent my outside getting peeled off by the opponent hand fighting.

                        During a class in ABQ, I was shown to reap the knee with my outside leg, but to then tuck my inside leg shin under the leg I was attacking. The object being to control the leg I am not attacking with my closest hand, lift, and get both of my feet tucked under the leg I am not attacking as a finishing position. In essence, always finishing the straight ankle or heel hook with one hand while I controlled the free leg with my other hand.

                        Anyone have any idea what I'm talking about? Thoughts on the merits of each finishing position?
                        The position you just learned is superior as it hides your feet from counter attacks. However, getting that control on the legs can be it's own battle. The first method is quicker to set up and I often finish ankle locks and heel hooks from your first method.

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