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BJJ White Belt Frustration

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    #16
    Originally posted by Keeze View Post
    This is true. My old set of skills was very small and I knew exactly what to do as soon as I went to that position. My old skill set was fine for holding my own at the ATA school. However, when I went to the Gracie school I quickly found that my old techniques were useless against their students and nearly all of them set me up to be swept. So I'm at a point where I'm trying to throw out my old techniques and adopt these new ones. So I guess in a way I'm back to square 1.
    Stop right there. Don't LOSE the techniques or think that they are wrong (although you will want to cover the finer details of them with your instructor). What you're finding is that the students knew the counter to your approach to those techniques. So you need to learn the finer details of those techniques, different flows and approaches to them etc. Combinations, misdirection.

    Do you know that a blue and a black belt know generally the same techniques? The difference is in timing, and the ton of fine details that will make or break a submission, sweep, counter etc.

    Don't think that you need to toss out all of your BJJ and start over simply because you're hitting a wall. What you need is to look at the overall game now, how you put all of those together and when.

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      #17
      Originally posted by Keeze View Post
      This is true. My old set of skills was very small and I knew exactly what to do as soon as I went to that position. My old skill set was fine for holding my own at the ATA school. However, when I went to the Gracie school I quickly found that my old techniques were useless against their students and nearly all of them set me up to be swept. So I'm at a point where I'm trying to throw out my old techniques and adopt these new ones. So I guess in a way I'm back to square 1.
      One of the things that helped me most was something I read from Helio about how he never fights to win, he fights not to lose. This really helped my game alot. At 6'1'', 250lbs and 55 yo I knew I was going to be the slowest guy on the mat, it didn't matter who I was rolling with. So I build my game around the roll not to lose idea. I worked my positions, balance, grip fighting and being calm. Instead of attacking I waited for my opponent to make a mistake.

      Now this will probably not be a good game plan for you but the concept of taking your time and keeping good balance and position will help your game.

      The funny thing was I got more subs when I was cautious than when I was aggressive because a lot of people will start to get reckless trying to set up their attacks if you don't give them any good openings.

      Be patient and good luck.

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        #18
        Originally posted by M1K3 View Post
        One of the things that helped me most was something I read from Helio about how he never fights to win, he fights not to lose.
        Holy cow. I am now using this as the root of the overarching (and overgeneralized, not-always-true) difference that Dave Camarillo talks about between judo and BJJ.

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          #19
          Originally posted by 1point2 View Post
          Holy cow. I am now using this as the root of the overarching (and overgeneralized, not-always-true) difference that Dave Camarillo talks about between judo and BJJ.
          ?????

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            #20
            Sorry for the derail, I thought it was interesting.

            Dave Camarillo (elite-level judo competitor, BJJ black belt) often speaks in broad generalizations about judo being attribute-driven, explosive, overwhelming and direct, whereas BJJ is more laid-back in its strategy, and relies on superior technique winning out in the end.
            http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f12/da...e-bjj-1018848/

            Disclaimer: Obviously this is not true in all cases, it's not a blanket assertion that Judo is X while BJJ is Y. I'm just saying that Helio's statement is impressive in how it states the BJJ strategy in strikingly similar terms to how Dave Camarillo describes.

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              #21
              Cool, the derail was worthy. I like the laid back strategy because I am old, slow and strong and that combination works well with it.

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                #22
                Work on getting positional dominance. You may have gotten away with snatch and grab submissions early on, but maybe the ATA boys have at least gotten a little bit savvy, and can now avoid simple mistakes. A lot of newbs who only know a couple of techniques tend to dive for them. You can get away with this against other newbs, but eventually your partners will learn enough to make you miss. If you can dominate someone positionally, you can pick and choose your subs as slowly as you like.

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                  #23
                  I have practice coming up in about 3 hours from now. I'll try to focus more on my positions than submissions and try to relax. I think one of my biggest issues at the moment is that I'm able to break people down in my closed guard, but I can't seem to complete a submission from that broken down position which I think is where a lot of my frustration was coming from, because I am able to get them broken down but once they're there all my submission attempts are thwarted :eusa_wall. In that respect though the focus moves back towards submission rather than position, unless I try to sweep instead of submit.

                  Plus I'm the smallest guy at either school and I end up on the bottom in guard a LOT. If there is one thing I AM good at it's maintaining guard and defending the mount. I'd probably say that I spend a good 70% of my time on the mat with someone locked in my guard.

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                    #24
                    You'll find it hard to attack much with them in closed guard.
                    If you are able to keep their posture broken, try the armbar from within your guard (you'll have to open guard, rotate etc). it's just the first attack that comes to mind from broken posture etc. I've been working from the bottom for the last year and a half as it was a short-coming in my ground game.
                    Sit-up, hips back and go for kimura, or the sweep.
                    Another is the long-range kimura (check youtube for it, Dean Lister).
                    Miss the kimura and rotate into the omaplata, or pull back for a triangle etc. Boatloads of options from the bottom. You'll find and get comfortable with them over time.

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                      #25
                      Yeah. Last class we practiced setting up the triangle in guard, and if they tucked their arm transitioning to omaplata, then if they weren't broken down transitioning back the the triangle and then if they postured up with it transitioning to an arm lock.

                      The one submission that I kept missing was that arm lock that you immediately thought of. I'm thinking that I just need LOTS of practice. :happy:
                      Last edited by Keeze; 10/29/2009 3:31pm, .

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                        #26
                        This thread helped me a lot as well.

                        Keeze: I find that when someone's in a dominant position ALL I can do (as a shitty white belt) is to try and stop their submissions, and I'm not good enough for sweeps or anything else. Thus, I wouldn't get too depressed if the other person is just trying to evade your submissions while basically being able to do nothing :)

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                          #27
                          Originally posted by Keeze View Post
                          This is true. My old set of skills was very small and I knew exactly what to do as soon as I went to that position. My old skill set was fine for holding my own at the ATA school. However, when I went to the Gracie school I quickly found that my old techniques were useless against their students and nearly all of them set me up to be swept. So I'm at a point where I'm trying to throw out my old techniques and adopt these new ones. So I guess in a way I'm back to square 1.

                          Their are only four punches in boxing, yet their are a thousand ways to perform each punch. It is not that the moves are flawed but that they are not perfected. For every move their is a counter.

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                            #28
                            Originally posted by Keeze View Post
                            Plus I'm the smallest guy at either school and I end up on the bottom in guard a LOT. If there is one thing I AM good at it's maintaining guard and defending the mount. I'd probably say that I spend a good 70% of my time on the mat with someone locked in my guard.
                            Collar & lapel chokes FTW.

                            http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...5372451756364#

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                              #29
                              Originally posted by DCS View Post
                              or omoplata and other sweeps (yea I know but the Omoplata might as well be a sweep)

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                                #30
                                So I had a long talk tonight with my instructor about the benefits of rolling very slowly and trying to feel the weight shift of my opponent as opposed to rolling fast and hard all of the time. I tried to sit back and chill and try to feel my opponent out, and I already made a few small improvements. He assured me that I would improve MUCH faster training this way than if I tried to go fast during rolling all of the time.

                                Also, he said that he had the same problem that I do when he first started doing BJJ. He took me aside after our conversation tonight and showed me two of his favorite sweeps from the guard when a really big guy is giving him trouble. I'm not sure what the second one was called but the first is called the pendulum sweep, and it worked great for me on the mats tonight!

                                And DCS, if there is ANYTHING that I wish I was good at it is the collar choke. I really need to work on it a lot.

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