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"When I move you move, just like that"

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    "When I move you move, just like that"

    Right now my "game" (if you can call it like that) is me waiting for my partner to move and react on his move. I have no real "offence" game when I am on top, especially when I am in somebody's guard I tend to stall and wait for what happens, mainly because I have problems with posturing up and keeping them on the ground. And even when I have mount I wait for them to move rather than going for some sub myself. It is not like I am not going for the sub, I take it when I see it but I am not pushing for it or anything.

    When I have somebody in guard I just wait for them to stand up because then I can sweep them (I have a hard time with the scissor sweep and all the others) and since I have a tight guard most people tend to stand up. Yesterday one guy did the elbow grind in my thigh for about 1,5 minute but I did not open my guard (I regretted that soon after when my leg started to cramp) because I knew eventually he will stand up, what he did.

    I don't like that passive approach, I feel like I am not doing anything and hence I don't improve at the level I "imagine" I could.
    So what is your approach, do you wait or do you push the pace?

    PS: If this does not belong here, move it to gitmo

    as a Judo guy my bottom game (hell, my game) is not to a decent level comparing to people in jiu jitsu, and great part of that is simply because I would train to take advantage of the rules, but during practice, one way I found to improve on this problem is to take chances, attack, sweep, defend, reverse, etc. because the worst thing that can happen is that your partner get's to practice improving his or her position, is just practice after all.

    Plus, being aggresive forces the other person to react, which in turn helps you in setting up your attacks and that would go a long way in improving your game.

    also, irrelevant to some extent, but it is worth pointing out, start your practices in the worst position posible for you, and try to improve position from there.

    A jiujitsu practicioner will be with you shortly with better advice that would helpt us both
    Originally posted by Phrost
    Yeah, you're probably right.

    But still, something about having a black guy or a lesbian jump out from behind a garbage can yelling "SURPRISE GONG SAU" at any of your big-named RBSD kooks makes me giggle like a little girl.
    Originally posted by Phrost
    There are two kinds of members on MAP:

    1. LARPers/Partial Artists
    2. People who haven't heard about Bullshido.
    The Mighty McClaw to Fox when refusing to fight AnnaT.

    Originally posted by TheMightyMcClaw
    Don't fight girls? When are you living, the 1850's? I suppose you think they shouldn't work or vote either.
    Get with the times and punch a chick.
    Wingchundo's response after I called him a "pussy"

    Originally posted by wingchundo
    Hey, I resemble that remark!

    Ok, time for a snappy comeback.... uh...

    OK. Here goes.

    You are what you eat!


      Originally posted by El Neko
      also, irrelevant to some extent, but it is worth pointing out, start your practices in the worst position posible for you, and try to improve position from there.
      Not irrelevant at all. QFT. Positional drilling is an awesome thing. If something gives me trouble, I think of it like a math problem--you've got to put in the hours solving that problem. Starting a roll from back mount (or whatever) takes away that sense of failure--"God, how could I be so stupid as to give them BOTH hooks!?"--that often comes when being positionally dominated.

      Originally posted by El Neko
      A jiujitsu practicioner will be with you shortly with better advice that would help all 3 of us


        Hm, I am only three months in to ju jitsu, but here's what I've found; never sit still and wait for something to happen. It's always better to keep moving. Once you have trained for years, drilling incessantly to absorb a multitude of techniques into your musle memory that can be used in reaction to whatever your partner does, then you will be very good at this 'reactive' game. For me though, for now, I find it best to always be pushing something so they (hopefully) don't have time to stop and think about where to go. If you are in their guard for instance, and you are waiting for them to make a move, they surely will be able to with ease and it will be easier for them to think step-by-step and sweep or submit you. I would go for the stomach push-knee in ass- elbows digging escape, and if they hold it go for the can opener, even if you are unsuccesful at first. Keep pressing on them, so that they cannot gather their thoughts, but first and foremost; always think of keeping a solid base.

        You'll need to attempt techniques and fail repeadetly to ever get better at them, so just go out there and do it. If you got him in guard, go for the armbar, the triangle or whatever- it's worth a shot.

        It sounds like you just need to drill more. Like neko said, work on your weaknesses. If you have problems holding your posture and keeping them on the ground, then have your partner start the roll with you in his guard more often. That way, you can work on what to do from there.
        Last edited by BudoMonkey; 9/17/2008 10:45am, .


          I've been doing this (bjj) for over a year now. I too play a very defensive game and I do it for 2 reasons.

          1. It suits me mentally. I like playing defense, its my personalty. Let the other guy make a mistake. If I was a boxer I'd be a counter puncher.

          2. Physical reasons. Over 50, slower than everyone, and I mean everyone and arthritis of the knees. It makes some moves hard and painful to do.

          So I am working on my own game. It is not the same as everyone else's but it lets me roll and enjoy BJJ.

          So, don't feel you have to play an aggressive attacking style if it doesn't suit you. So far what I have found is that if you have a good defense and are patient your rolling partner will give you the opening your looking for.


            For the first N months, I played it as defensively as I could; it's in my nature, and it suits me, but it does have the annoying consequence that I spent so little time practicing sweeps and submissions that even when my defensive style would cause someone to expose something, I inevitably failed to capitalise on it. (It doesn't help that I'm slow and don't explode when I need to.)

            More recently, I've started deliberately taking chances -- get mount, secure the position, then go for some sub knowing full well that I'll probably get upa-ed and have to start over from the bottom. Well, so what? If I never take the chance I'll never learn the submissions properly, and if I get reversed, big deal.

            I still suck, but at least my subs tend to fail by a smaller margin, on average, than they used to...


              Yea, it's a good attitude altogether I suppose because I know a bunch of young guys that start a roll as aggresively as possible, and in turn gas out real quick and don't think straight because of it.


                How long have you been doing BJJ, f4n? Not long, right? Well, as you may have noticed, everyone starts off playing defensive. Because to develop your offense you need to practice on people less expirenced than yourself, which at this time, there probably aren't that many. It'll come with time. Just keep rolling and looking for opprotunities and taking risks.



                  You're falling into a trap, and the longer you fail to address it, the harder it will be to correct yourself down the road.

                  There are skilled grapplers who are truly "Defensive Masters"...but they got that way after years of training, competition, trial/error, and technique evaluation.

                  Instead of playing lazy, defensive, or should, as a new grappler, be drilling your basics as often as possible with CLEAR INTENTION and assertive action. This will push you to improve your game, and prevent stagnation.

                  In all honesty, the only times (at your level) that you should be playing slow, lazy, or defensive are:

                  1. Fighting a younger/smaller opponent

                  2. Fighting a much less skilled opponent

                  3. Goal oriented rolling with an equally skilled opponent

                  4. Working around an injury


                  Otherwise, you need to push the pace, break a sweat, try for that sub, struggle for that counter, etc...

                  I fell into that trap, and I'm just now trying to break myself of some severe habits that were crippling my game. I played slow, lazy, and methodical...yet got pissed off when athletically inclined grapplers would own me. I called them "spazzes" and "gotards"...

                  ...then I realized that my game simply could not hang with theirs. This is a fault of MINE, and not THEM.


                  Keep in mind that "Pushing the Pace" does not necessarily meaning flailing and spazzing like a fish out of water. It simply means that you continually exert effort to pressure and attack your opponent at all times.

                  Just my opinion.


                    1. This thread belongs in gitmo as it poses a general question. DHS is for specific questions. "How do I get better in guard?" isn't a specific question.

                    Originally posted by BudoMonkey
                    . . .and if they hold it go for the can opener,
                    No, no no! Do not advise beginner's to attempt neck cranks, even ineffectual ones like the can opener. Unless you immobilize bottom guy's hips, you leave yourself open to the armbar. Not to mention the can opener is a lousy choice for a guard pass unless the guy on top is much heavier and or much more skilled. They are much better guard passes to learn as a beginner.
                    Shut the hell up and train.


                      You are truly, very correct. I meant it there as an example of continuing to push the pace and keeping yourself moving is all.

                      My bad.


                        To the OP

                        It sounds like your issue is a fundamental one rather than a specific technical one.

                        Basically you are too concerned with winning or losing and are not looking at every roll as a place to practice technique.

                        Here's what I did that really helped

                        Just choose 1 thing at first - a sweep, a counter a sub or whatever and go for it.

                        If you screw it up and get passed and put in side control and have to tap, then tap and start again.

                        Keep repeating

                        If your goal is to be more offensive then attack! go for the arm bar (remember to break their posture though)

                        But just try out different stuff and don't swet it if you "lose" there's no such thing just training


                          Try something you have learned and let yourself get submitted.

                          It is better to take the time you are given and to keep moving and learning than to stall and waste both you and your partner's time.


                            I have the same issue. For years I've been working on my defensive and "counter" grappling to great success but I know I need to be more aggressive and am trying really hard to break some bad habits.

                            I got to always remember to keep putting on the pressure and DON'T GET LAZY!


                              When I wrote my post, Goju's wasn't basically what he said.



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