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    #16
    Originally posted by Krampus View Post
    BKR, give a look at this.

    The bald fucker in the video has tossed me with it a few times.

    When he brings his other leg behind my center of gravity

    after the inserted leg,

    I fly high, and don't like it at all, mainly because I am a pussy.

    We call it the Joji, after a local Cuban Santerian priest who picked up some titles back in the day with it.

    It has some similarities to what I think Koga actually does in competition, versus what he demonstrates.

    I would add, yes, yes, it is more uke goshi than seoi, but it will fucking make you fall, you know what I mean...

    Been years since I was there but knew when I saw it. Helped install the valve spring loaded tatami when Nick moved from Chuck's I40 location. Best place to get thrown in the state. Was happy to see Nick separate from Geis and go his own way.

    Lol at the hair loss. It's been years.
    Carter Hargrave's Jeet Can't Do

    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=31636

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      #17
      Originally posted by anthracite View Post
      Been years since I was there but knew when I saw it. Helped install the valve spring loaded tatami when Nick moved from Chuck's I40 location. Best place to get thrown in the state. Was happy to see Nick separate from Geis and go his own way.

      Lol at the hair loss. It's been years.
      Holy shit, I had no idea.

      I train with Schrock, and some of Karl's old guys

      who moved or were located in Florida.

      But I am not really part of the Karl Geis crew.

      That said, they developed some good ashi-waza systems.

      And some of their former competitors are not made of paper.

      Comment


        #18
        Originally posted by BKR View Post
        It increases the risk of injury for sure.

        However, and I love you man, you are not a world=class wrestler, with the physique to back it up. Or decades of wrestling skill either.

        I'll give you an example. The famous Koga Seoi Nage. After he started showcasing it, lots of people, including me, tried to imitate it.

        Now, I was pretty good at Ippon Seoi Nage. Favorite throw, and all that, black belt in Judo.

        I just about dislocated my sacrum trying to do it. I'm not talking versus resistance, just imitating from Koga's video. I could do all his basics very well, as he correctly said you have to master before trying his personal technique.

        I mean, I was limping for a week...

        I was talking to a coach from Cali, who was way better connected in the elite level judo world than me. He told me he was talking to a Japanese national coach over dinner, and the coach stated that Koga (at 71 kg) had the lower body/back strength of a elite 90 kg judoka.

        Then I understood why I couldn't do that Koga seoi so well...
        THIS.

        I am not saying Adam Wheeler couldn't throw me flat on my back all day using this deep step throw or a million other ways and feel great. I am not saying other people can't use it effectively. I am saying under live conditions that shit ain't worth the added risk for me. Especially since my squat was always one of my best lifts I would rather keep my legs under my hips and lift that way.
        The added value of his way seems to be you don't have to squat as low. I would rather squat and have my legs under me Incase my opponent moves out of position or yanks me out of position.




        I am more a fan of The Gold Medal and Two Weight Class UFC Champ Hip toss. Not that silly bronze method. ;-)

        The Caucasian always has stronger strength and when comes to grappling, Caucasians mostly win easily. I do know grappling and if I used it on Asians my size, it works. - Kung Fu dude that got waxed at OneFc try out.

        Comment


          #19
          Originally posted by Hodr View Post
          THIS.

          I am not saying Adam Wheeler couldn't throw me flat on my back all day using this deep step throw or a million other ways and feel great. I am not saying other people can't use it effectively. I am saying under live conditions that shit ain't worth the added risk for me. Especially since my squat was always one of my best lifts I would rather keep my legs under my hips and lift that way.
          The added value of his way seems to be you don't have to squat as low. I would rather squat and have my legs under me Incase my opponent moves out of position or yanks me out of position.




          I am more a fan of The Gold Medal and Two Weight Class UFC Champ Hip toss. Not that silly bronze method. ;-)

          I think that Greco is different than judo and BJJ, and that athletes are individuals.

          In judo "hip toss" has different named throws that operate differently in application, but are all lever throws that use the hip as fulcrum. Judo layers other principles on top of the lever throw physics. There are variations of all those throws to suit specific situation and individual athlete's proclivity. Type of hip toss can change in mid- application in randori or shiai.

          It is good to practice the different application in their "pure" forms, in different situations, grips, no gi, etc.

          It is fun too.
          Falling for Judo since 1980

          "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

          "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

          "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

          Comment


            #20
            Originally posted by Krampus View Post
            The Joji / Schrockeru works fine off a variety of tori arm positioning

            so long as the tori arm positioning does not impede rotation.

            From a physics perspective, it is a wedge.

            The same structure that holds a much larger door as a doorstop.

            Like I said, when that second leg goes back, it's a flier.

            Pretty easy to teach from kids to adults,

            once you get them past the urge to uchi mata instead of wedge stomp to block out uke's hip.

            When one is thrown with the flier version, it's hard not to say something profane before you land.
            Well, My experience with it is as a sort of Tau Otoshi variant.

            Where is the fulcrum?

            * never mind, he mentions shoulder. More like a. Uki Otoshi...
            Last edited by BKR; 12/15/2019 11:22pm, .
            Falling for Judo since 1980

            "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

            "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

            "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

            Comment


              #21
              Originally posted by Krampus View Post
              BKR, give a look at this.

              The bald fucker in the video has tossed me with it a few times.

              When he brings his other leg behind my center of gravity

              after the inserted leg,

              I fly high, and don't like it at all, mainly because I am a pussy.

              We call it the Joji, after a local Cuban Santerian priest who picked up some titles back in the day with it.

              It has some similarities to what I think Koga actually does in competition, versus what he demonstrates.

              I would add, yes, yes, it is more uke goshi than seoi, but it will fucking make you fall, you know what I mean...

              Lol at his "teaching competitor" remark.

              One handed throw is going to be tough to finish on a competitor.

              Unless you are Koga, maybe.

              Also lol at not putting your jiko ashi back because big fall.
              Falling for Judo since 1980

              "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

              "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

              "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by Krampus View Post
                Holy shit, I had no idea.

                I train with Schrock, and some of Karl's old guys

                who moved or were located in Florida.

                But I am not really part of the Karl Geis crew.

                That said, they developed some good ashi-waza systems.

                And some of their former competitors are not made of paper.
                Yeah, I competed against some of them, more than once.

                Strong judoka, and nice folks.
                Falling for Judo since 1980

                "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

                "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

                "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

                Comment


                  #23
                  Originally posted by BKR View Post
                  Lol at his "teaching competitor" remark.

                  One handed throw is going to be tough to finish on a competitor.
                  It's sneaky.

                  Originally posted by BKR View Post
                  Also lol at not putting your jiko ashi back because big fall.
                  Did you not notice the average age of person in that room was about 50?

                  They fall pretty well, I am sure.

                  But when that forward leg joins its mate with that 45 degree otoshi and the drivers engage,

                  That throw gets high amplitude, high velocity, and tori is not protecting your arm as you go.

                  When he throws me with that, all the alarm bells go off, and I am used to falling from Judo style throws.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by Krampus View Post
                    It's sneaky.



                    Did you not notice the average age of person in that room was about 50?

                    They fall pretty well, I am sure.

                    But when that forward leg joins its mate with that 45 degree otoshi and the drivers engage,

                    That throw gets high amplitude, high velocity, and tori is not protecting your arm as you go.

                    When he throws me with that, all the alarm bells go off, and I am used to falling from Judo style throws.
                    Ok, in context, I get it, even on a spring loaded floor.

                    Koga used some of the same...maneuvers, too.

                    To great effect
                    Falling for Judo since 1980

                    "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

                    "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

                    "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Well, a derail with some value, maybe.

                      Falling for Judo since 1980

                      "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

                      "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

                      "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

                      Comment


                        #26
                        I hardly ever advocate doing that hips-past koshi guruma style hip throw for your average fella, because it can and often does create some incredible torque in your back, hips, obliques, and all other kinds of place where your tender bits are. Setting yourself up for not only injury, but more importantly an unsuccessful throw.

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Originally posted by blackmonk View Post
                          I hardly ever advocate doing that hips-past koshi guruma style hip throw for your average fella, because it can and often does create some incredible torque in your back, hips, obliques, and all other kinds of place where your tender bits are. Setting yourself up for not only injury, but more importantly an unsuccessful throw.
                          I found that most students found it to be an awkward, uncomfortable position, for sure. I would demo it, and felt it was easy to do, but realized it requires some flexibility, as well as pretty precise positioning to work.

                          So I usually defaulted to the version without the hips all the way past uke.

                          Falling for Judo since 1980

                          "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

                          "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

                          "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Originally posted by BKR View Post

                            I found that most students found it to be an awkward, uncomfortable position, for sure. I would demo it, and felt it was easy to do, but realized it requires some flexibility, as well as pretty precise positioning to work.

                            So I usually defaulted to the version without the hips all the way past uke.
                            Yeah, for sure. My tokui-waza, if you exclude kata guruma, is uki goshi. I like the fact that the end result is similar to o goshi or koshi guruma, but with minimum hip commitment.

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Originally posted by blackmonk View Post

                              Yeah, for sure. My tokui-waza, if you exclude kata guruma, is uki goshi. I like the fact that the end result is similar to o goshi or koshi guruma, but with minimum hip commitment.
                              Uki Goshi was my all-time favorite throw to do in practice. Never could get it to work much in shiai, though.

                              It is such an effortless throw when done right, with minimum positioning/movement.

                              And it can serve as a good entry point for other hip throws, as well.
                              Falling for Judo since 1980

                              "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

                              "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

                              "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

                              Comment

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