Improving take downs in grappling.

[Dr. Gonzo]

WF...here is another example: I trained with Mike Altman, who was ranked number 2 in the world in San Shou, behind his nemesis Cung Lee.

Here is a bit about Mike....also a BJJ Brown: http://www.txmma.com/txmma-technique...n-fu-dogs-mma/

San show uses the flying scissors takedown. It super cool looking and will work on someone unless they square up.

It won't work on a wrestler because a wrestler will square up.

How is that fact refuted just because of Mikes' credentials?

Are you referring to Kani Basami style leg scissors takedowns, such as this:

If so, why would you think that this take down would not be available as a counter offense to many situations where a wrestler attempts a single leg take down?

Particularly when a modified version of kani basami that is legal in wrestling (with a hand placed on the mat) is often taught in wrestling rooms across the nation as counter offense to a single, and taught by top wrestling coaches?

I'm confused...

[Dr. Gonzo]

It is the first technique.

Are you saying that because someone is a BB that they are automatically correct? Really?

Why don't you tell me how the technique I laid out will not work. I am just a little old Blue Belt, what can I know? Right?

Explain how squaring up works, or doesn't work.

How will squaring up defend against the technique in the video? What is the proper defense?

How do you PROPERLY execute a single leg? What does shifting levels mean, and why is it important?

What role does the sprawl have in all of this?

Explain. Technically. What is wrong with my advice. No personal attacks, the mean nothing. Teach me some technique.

I can think of many other defenses and counter offenses that I would consider higher percentage against a head inside single leg take down than a sprawl that are legal in even high school wrestling.

[preschol]

Here is an example of getting the step you need to properly set up the single leg. Notice at the 11 second mark, coach Kolat gets his opponent to square up and take a big step forward with his left leg.

That sets up the single sweep takedown. It is different than the single leg I mentioned, but the principle is the same: You must get your opponent to step big (IE square up) with his leg (in this case the left leg). He then has all his weight and momentum where you want so that you can get the takedown.

https://video.search.yahoo.com/searc...f7&action=view

[Dr. Gonzo]

Here is an example of getting the step you need to properly set up the single leg. Notice at the 11 second mark, coach Kolat gets his opponent to square up and take a big step forward with his left leg.

That sets up the single sweep takedown. It is different than the single leg I mentioned, but the principle is the same: You must get your opponent to step big (IE square up) with his leg (in this case the left leg). He then has all his weight and momentum where you want so that you can get the takedown.

https://video.search.yahoo.com/searc...f7&action=view

Did you not notice in the video that you just posted above by Coach Kolat that squaring up and sprawling as defenses to a properly executed head inside single leg were completely ineffective as defenses to that properly executed head inside single leg...?

[preschol]

Are you referring to Kani Basami style leg scissors takedowns, such as this:

If so, why would you think that this take down would not be available as a counter offense to many situations where a wrestler attempts a single leg take down?

Particularly when a modified version of kani basami that is legal in wrestling (with a hand placed on the mat) is often taught in wrestling rooms across the nation as counter offense to a single, and taught by top wrestling coaches?

I'm confused...

The technique is low percentage because it will not work against someone who knows how and why to square up.

Notice how, at the 24 second mark, the Judoka getting thrown just stands there, motionless. All he has to do is step forward with his left leg so that he is facing his opponent. That is called squaring up, and is taught in your first month of wrestling. The Judoka does not square up. He clearly remains motionless because if he does not the technique will not work. He has to cooperate.

This technique can be a great self defense technique. It is particularly nasty because the rotational force often result in the opponent getting the back of his head slammed on the pavement. That is why T each it. Against someone with wrestling training, it will not work. Consider that 95% of the populace does not have training, this technique will work on the street.

Just make sure you have a good lawyer. It is nasty.

[preschol]

Also, you really want to be able to hold on to the back of your opponents collar. Without the Gi or clothes, you hook your hand around the neck. Doing so is much less stable, so be advised.

Like I said....this is a fantastic technique on the street/for self defense. Your average person will be clueless, then unconciouse. You better have $15 k saved up for a lawyer, minimum.

This technique is also a good choice if there are potentioally multiple opponents. It happened very fast.

Now if the person squares up, then you know they have some trining. In that case, you are goping to have to set them up, ghet them to step.

In sport wrestling you do this using the tie up or other positional movement.

Now me personally, on the street if I miss this technique, I do not look to transition to another take down. Instead I will try and get myself in a position where I can strike.

I use this takedown because it will not require further ground work the fight will be over.

The same is true of Judo. The vast majority of Judo throws will end the fight immediately and decisively. You just need clothes. Judo is arguably the most valuable martial art in a cold climate.

[preschol]

Did you not notice in the video that you just posted above by Coach Kolat that squaring up and sprawling as defenses to a properly executed head inside single leg were completely ineffective as defenses to that properly executed head inside single leg...?

Against another highly skilled wrestlers, yes. I used the video because it illustrated how and why you square up, and how you set up the shot.

If your opponent is well trained, yes, he will sprawl and push the head away as we saw. In that case you must switch to another technique. Usually that is a snatch, which pulls the leg away.

[BKR]

Squaring Up

WF...here is another example: I trained with Mike Altman, who was ranked number 2 in the world in San Shou, behind his nemesis Cung Lee.

Here is a bit about Mike....also a BJJ Brown: http://www.txmma.com/txmma-technique...n-fu-dogs-mma/

San show uses the flying scissors takedown. It super cool looking and will work on someone unless they square up.

It won't work on a wrestler because a wrestler will square up.

How is that fact refuted just because of Mikes' credentials?

Please explain what you mean by "squaring up". I think I have a different idea of what you mean from what I think of as "squaring up".

As in a wrestler will "square up", as you have stated quite a few times.


*edit*

Never mind, I looked it up. Two basic stances, square and staggered.

Standard grappling...

[Dr. Gonzo]

Against another highly skilled wrestlers, yes. I used the video because it illustrated how and why you square up, and how you set up the shot.

If your opponent is well trained, yes, he will sprawl and push the head away as we saw. In that case you must switch to another technique. Usually that is a snatch, which pulls the leg away.

A well trained high level wrestler will indeed screw with your attempts to get or maintain correct single leg head position,
but I am still confused why you seem to think that a well trained high level wrestler would "sprawl" as their primary go to defense or counter offense against a head inside single leg take down.
Sprawling is perhaps over-utilized at the high school and lower grade wrestling level because you only have so much time to teach the kids some goto concepts.
But at the college level and above (and even in very competitive high school) wrestling programs, wrestlers would know and practice actual counter-offense to a head inside single legs,
and I myself would not consider a classic hips straight down sprawl (on its own without hitting some funk or making them switch their head position first) an appropriate scoring counter-offense to a head inside single leg takedown, including under even high school wrestling rules, because it is just too easy to cut the angle versus the sprawl and hit a multitude of options to score or return to neutral, unless they funk or hit other options.

[Dr. Gonzo]

The technique is low percentage because it will not work against someone who knows how and why to square up.

Notice how, at the 24 second mark, the Judoka getting thrown just stands there, motionless. All he has to do is step forward with his left leg so that he is facing his opponent. That is called squaring up, and is taught in your first month of wrestling. The Judoka does not square up. He clearly remains motionless because if he does not the technique will not work. He has to cooperate.

This technique can be a great self defense technique. It is particularly nasty because the rotational force often result in the opponent getting the back of his head slammed on the pavement. That is why T each it. Against someone with wrestling training, it will not work. Consider that 95% of the populace does not have training, this technique will work on the street.

Just make sure you have a good lawyer. It is nasty.

This technique is potentially high percentage anytime someone attempts a high single leg and they are in range.

[BKR]

Here is an example of getting the step you need to properly set up the single leg. Notice at the 11 second mark, coach Kolat gets his opponent to square up and take a big step forward with his left leg.

That sets up the single sweep takedown. It is different than the single leg I mentioned, but the principle is the same: You must get your opponent to step big (IE square up) with his leg (in this case the left leg). He then has all his weight and momentum where you want so that you can get the takedown.

https://video.search.yahoo.com/searc...f7&action=view

Oh, I begin to see what you mean by "square" up now.

But you keep saying that a good wrestler will "square up".

So, you are talking about the person doing the take-down will maneuver the person he is attacking to square up, this making the take-down easier due to directional postural weakness.

I would agree that is a fundamental skill to take down or throw a resisting opponent. I would add there are a lot of ways to do that, and that as Bill pointed out earlier, adding a jacket and/or pants changes things up a bit (adds possibilities) to the equation.

There are also ways to throw a guy that due not rely on changing angles to overcome the staggered stance (it's called migi or hidari shizentai (right or left natural posture) or migi or hidari jigotai (right or left defensive posture) in Judo).

In Judo, we (or some people) call it "t-ing up" on your opponent so you can apply force in the direction of their least ability to resist.

So, a good judoka will try to get t-ed up on their opponent.

Then there is the triangle thing with the base drawn between opponents insteps and the apex out front of him.

[preschol]

Did you not notice in the video that you just posted above by Coach Kolat that squaring up and sprawling as defenses to a properly executed head inside single leg were completely ineffective as defenses to that properly executed head inside single leg...?

Yes, I can explain what happened. A the 15 second mark you will hear Kolat say "run to the corner." We know then that is a different technique. I was advocating and inside single, he is talking about an outside single, different technique. Sometimes it is called an outside sweeping single. There are hundreds of variations on the single leg.

I teach the inside single because I prefer it for self defense. Instead of physically moving your opponent, in a real fight where real punches and kicks are being thrown, it is better to go with the inside. We do that by timing their striking. So, for example, I see that the person has boxing training and I am in danger of getting knocked out, here is what I do.

When he jabs, he is going to put his weight on his front/lead foot. The left foot i he is right handed. I will switch my striking stance to lefty (I train both ways) so that my right foot is close to his left foot. That way I have less distance to cover. When he jabs, I switch levels and shoot.

I tell people teach to use the take down only if they are getting beat up on the feet. If not, I rarely advocate going to the ground, I always prefer to stay on my feet in a real fight unless I am going up against a K 1 champ. If you have no stand up training, then you better get the fight to the ground.

I mainly teach the single leg because you need to learn how to do it in order to defend against it.

[BKR]

The technique is low percentage because it will not work against someone who knows how and why to square up.

Notice how, at the 24 second mark, the Judoka getting thrown just stands there, motionless. All he has to do is step forward with his left leg so that he is facing his opponent. That is called squaring up, and is taught in your first month of wrestling. The Judoka does not square up. He clearly remains motionless because if he does not the technique will not work. He has to cooperate.

This technique can be a great self defense technique. It is particularly nasty because the rotational force often result in the opponent getting the back of his head slammed on the pavement. That is why T each it. Against someone with wrestling training, it will not work. Consider that 95% of the populace does not have training, this technique will work on the street.

Just make sure you have a good lawyer. It is nasty.

I've seen Kani Basami work in high level judo competition (when it was still a legal technique). It works, but like anything else, it does not work all of the time.

The video is demonstration, to show the principles/concepts of the technique.

At :49, an action-reaction example is shown. And at :54 an real-life example of an action reaction sequence quite similar, at high level judo competition.

Seriously, it is difficult to have a technical discussion with you at times. I'm trying to understand you, but it's difficult.

[preschol]

This technique is potentially high percentage anytime someone attempts a high single leg and they are in range.

No. The high single require you to have a full armed grip while you pull the leg away. Also, trap the leg inside your 2 legs. The flying scissors is thus impossible.

To get out you first must have excellent balance and be able to defend his sweeps/pulls/turns. Watch GSP against Johnnie Hendricks. You must free your leg, then place your shin against his thigh and drice your foot to the floor. You also need to set your wizzer and push his head away with your left hand.

You never see the flying scissors in wrestling because it won't work against someone with training.

But like I said, it is good for SD.

[preschol]

[QUOTE=BKR;2927686]I've seen Kani Basami work in high level judo competition (when it was still a legal technique). It works, but like anything else, it does not work all of the time.

The video is demonstration, to show the principles/concepts of the technique.

At :49, an action

I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you. :)

The reason you may see it in Judo and not wrestling is because in Judo you behave a solid grip on your opponents collar.