Constant Movement in Knockdown Karate

[marcwagz]

Im fighting in a tournament and my coach is constantly saying that movement is the key to winning, mainly constantly cutting 45 degree angles and using that to both find openings and avoid incoming attacks. But then I go on YT and watch even high level guys and 80% of the time guys stand in front of each other and bang.
So where is the breakdown in movement?
I'm worried if these guys can't execute I have no chance.

[slamdunc]

Much of this depends on the style and tactics of your opponent. If you are squared-off with and beating him, do you need angles? If the face-to-face is getting you pounded, you should probably change strategies. What rule-sets are you restricted to?

[marcwagz]

I think its just basic rules, no face punching or elbowing, but punches, knees, elbows, kicks, to the body allowed and kicks and knees to the head allowed.
Though we are only semi-contact so will be wearing shin slip-covers and headgear along with mma gloves.

I guess whatever works is good, but if I win because I'm bigger and I just push the smaller guy the whole time that would feel lame, although I guess the onus would be on him to move.
I will probably be the smaller guy in these matches (open weight, and I am only around 190-200) so I will need to be on the move.

[soft touch]

Most of my Goju tourney experience is in-house, and our head coach comes from a boxing and kickboxing background, so our tournaments are all full contact rounds.. but from what i see in most goju guys around here, the emphasis on sabaki is huge, but a lot of them manage to still have no head movement despite moving their body constantly.

I'd have to say you've got to cater your movement to your opponent.. and since you're a relatively small guy, if your opponent is bigger than you, i wouldn't want to be slugging against him, so yeah, take those angles. But then, if he's too fast for you, you'll help him probably by stepping into leg kicks etc.

Basically from my experience in fighting other goju guys, if you're faster than them, use all the movement you can, and just try not to get hit while you hit them, if they're faster than you, go inside their guard and try to get enough body-shots in that they slow down. (depending on the tournaments attitude to sparring, aiming for the liver may or may not be an excellent idea, but it'll depend on a multitude of factors)

tldr it depends who you're fighting, the best way to get a feel for this is just go and see what works vs whom

[searcher66071]

If you can find something out for me, it would help out with giving advice. You said that you are competing with basic KD rules, but it is semi-knockdown(same rules, but with pads), correct? Find out if they will allow Gi grabs and for how long. Some knockdown tourneys have rules against grabbing. Others, mostly those influenced by Ashihara and Enshin, allow for single hand or double hand grabs with a max of 5 seconds. This may not seem like a big thing, but it will truly effect if you can get some sweeps and use of good Sabaki. I have been influenced by Ashihara and Enshin styles greatly, and their emphasis on Sabaki is very high. When I fight in KD, I choose to be highly mobile and |I am constantly trying to off-balance my opponent. For many of the Kyokushin schools, this throws them off in their attacks. No matter whet the rules, don't let your opponent set his feet by standing stationary. It makes for a long day and even longer weekend.

[gregaquaman]

Yeah you loose points for crumpling on a hit. So if you get caught moving get hit go backwards you loose more points than staunching it.

[marcwagz]

the ruls say no grabbing/throwing

[Permalost]

I think of 45 degree steps offline kinda like setting up a baseball bat swing- you don't stand on the plate and try to hit something right in front of you- you step to the side to avoid getting hit and to get the right position to turn your hips and body into the strike. But you can't do this all the time if the other guy wants to keep crashing in, cause you'll end up trying to step while the other guy is firing strikes, and getting hit will throw off your ability to step offline anyway.

In a way, those continuous punching exchanges are kinda like moving step push hands but with heavy contact. One of the things about moving forward in push hands is that you can only do so when you have the postural advantage (when you're pushing them backwards). If you try to step into them when they have the advantage, you'll actually end up breaking your own posture (or at least making it easy for them to do it). So, by trying to do your forward 45 steps at the wrong time, you could be setting yourself up for failure.

During continuous exchanges, I'll still try to use some dynamic footwork but perhaps not full triangle steps. A sidestep plus a roundhouse shin to the thigh or ribs can work in a back and forth exchange.

[searcher66071]

the ruls say no grabbing/throwing

With no grabbing, work your footwork very hard, along with your leg checks and keeping your elbows very tight to your body. Most KD fighters like to throw between 2-3 punches to every kick. And they tend to throw inside and outside leg kicks alternating. It may seem predictable, but it is somewhat difficult to judge in the heat of the match. Don't go with the mindset of taking an opponent in the first round(as most are 2-2min rounds). Look to weather the storm in the first and then do your most damage in the second. Choose a body part that you are going to work over, no matter what happens. Normally it is the outside of the lead leg. Don't get distracted by what your opponent is doing, as it tends to suck you into their game and take you out of yours. Have fun and you will do just fine.

On a side note, concerning getting kicked in the legs, and this will happen, get a foam roller and start rolling out your legs. If you get a chance to do it between matches, then do it there also. Roll the IT bands and keep them flexible. I cannot tell you how much that alone changed my ability to take a hard shot to the leg.

[marcwagz]

leg kicks of the guys who train knockdown are brutal because they just launch them over and over and it doesn't seem to matter how many kicks I check eventually some get through. probably ate dozens of leg kicks today on top of the ones I checked.

In a competition that will probably be my weak point, because although I am trying to condition my legs with these sparring classes I'm going to in my goju classes I don't eat leg kicks because we aren't training for competitions, not use to the constant hits to the leg.

Gonna have to find someone to start kicking me down soon, have to get used to it I guess.

[searcher66071]

Gonna have to find someone to start kicking me down soon, have to get used to it I guess.

I do this with my fighters when they are prepping for MMA, kickboxing, or knockdown events. We get together and do "brutal hour" conditioning. Everyone spends 5 minute rounds trading shots to the legs and abdomen, then they switch partners. It is one of those times when it just sucks, but you get through it. Start with ~10 minutes of this:moving down the floor kicking your partners legs, then they do they same on the return trip. Go nonstop for the 10 minutes. Make sure they kick all up and down the leg, not just a single spot. It would suck to get one spot conditioned well, then get to the tourney and get kicked somewhere else. Make sure to condition the inside of the legs as well, but be careful. The inside leg muscles don't take to hard conditioning very well. Be light for some time with the inside of the legs.

After the 10 minutes of leg conditioning, do sets of 50-100 body weight squats. It will get you used to moving after getting your legs beat on. Then you can repeat the process.

Abs are done similar, but we switch who is striking every 30 seconds and we only go for 2-3 minutes at a time. These are mixed with situps and trunk twists.

Keep us in the loop on how it is going.

[MrGalt]

I'm confused too. Is this semi-contact or is it knockdown, which for some reason is being done with gloves?

If this is semi-contact, I guess you're just getting points for touches, so yeah, keep moving or something. Whatever.

Maybe the best way to settle this is with a single question: Do you want to knock your opponent out?

[marcwagz]

I'm confused too. Is this semi-contact or is it knockdown, which for some reason is being done with gloves?

If this is semi-contact, I guess you're just getting points for touches, so yeah, keep moving or something. Whatever.

Maybe the best way to settle this is with a single question: Do you want to knock your opponent out?

I want to knock them... down?
I wouldn't worry about conditioning my legs if it was point sparring..
Semi-contact is just kyokushin with gear

[MrGalt]

I want to knock them... down?
I wouldn't worry about conditioning my legs if it was point sparring..
Semi-contact is just kyokushin with gear

I think of dipped-foam point sparring when somebody says "semi contact." Kyokushin with gear is just knockdown. I'd call that hard contact.